Restricted line and badges

[Steve Wilkins]

The Surface Warfare Medical, Dental, Nurse, Supply, etc. are not warfare insignia. The requirements to get them are a joke and in no way qualify the holders as a war fighter. They are "feel good" pins that came out after a lot of crying by the staff pukes about being second class citizens.

I was on TR when they first came out. Our CO told all those interested that if they wanted to earn the pin, they had to actually join the bridge watch rotation, qualify in the various watch position and stay on it for the entire deployment. He wasn't going to allow them just to do the BS 5 or 6 "familiarization" watches the PQS required. He said the same about various damage control, combat, etc. requirements. We had 1 Doc out of the initial hordes of staff pukes that was willing to do it the CO's way. The rest pussied out claiming our CO was making it too hard. Our CO just said if they were going to get a "warfare pin", then they needed to know the subject thoroughly.

Just like you said, it is NOT a warfare pin. I see no reason to hold them to the same standards or requirements. I did weekly training for the medical bubbas and supply weenies on various topics of surface warfare during my deployment on the LINCOLN. The fact that they are even putting forth the effort to get a pin at all is worth something. They don't have to do it. The knowledge they are required to have is all introductory level in nature and is meant to provide a general overview. Everyone that I trained was very curious about the functions of surface warfare and naval aviation. Putting them through a bridge or CDC watch rotation serves no purpose other than make your CO look like a jackass. After all, it's not a warfare pin right?

Besides, an aircraft carrier is a terrible, terrible place to learn about surface warfare.

As for the supply weenies that go to small boys, well get your ass up to bridge and get OOD qual'd. Not because you need to for your pin, but because you're a friggin JO and more than capable.

 

[Steve Wilkins]

From what Steve (our resident SWO) has posted, only actual SWOs can qualify for the SWO pin. Others may be able to qualify for ODO (probably what you're thinking of), TAO or CDO, but those don't rate a pin of any kind. If you're an AMDO in a squadron or AIMD, etc, you're going to be too busy to worry about learning how to drive the ship.

Brett

LDO's and Warrants in certain designators can qualify for the SWO pin. This is a policy I wholeheartedly disagree with, but it's the way it is. I think the SWO pin should only be authorized for 1110 SWO's (unrestricted line). But I also believe that being a SWO is much more than just a ship driver.

 

[Steve Wilkins]

As for pt # 2 ... "drive the ship" and all that entails - yes.

What the hell does that mean?

 

[snizo]

When I "drive my car" I mean I'm responsible for all aspect of the safe operation of my car, where it goes, and what it does. Seems to me that a CO of a surface ship does the same. Clearly it is more involved than just 'driving' it, but that is one way to sum it up in 5 words or less such that everyone knows what I'm talking about.

I'm not trying to belittle anyone's community (..."As for the supply weenies that go to small boys, well get your ass up to bridge and get OOD qual'd...") - but we're arguing over semantics....

 

[Fred]

Besides, an aircraft carrier is a terrible, terrible place to learn about surface warfare.

Because senior leadership are aviators?

 

[floridaseabee]

Okay, I'm gonna piss off staff pukes here...

The Surface Warfare Medical, Dental, Nurse, Supply, etc. are not warfare insignia. The requirements to get them are a joke and in no way qualify the holders as a war fighter. They are "feel good" pins that came out after a lot of crying by the staff pukes about being second class citizens.

Don't lump this in with the Seabee Combat Warfare Pin that can be obtained in Battalions. CEC may be staff, but we can fight wars too.

 

[Steve Wilkins]

Because senior leadership are aviators?

No, it has nothing to do with leadership whether senior or junior. It's because an aircraft carrier isn't about surface warfare. It's about launching and recovering aircraft. Senior leadership actually tends to be quite knowledgable about surface warfare. The carrier operates in an air warfare environment with minor exceptions. The training value of this for surface warfare bubbas is good only to the extent that it provides a God's eye view of the battlespace. For someone with a pin, this is good. For someone just starting out, not so good.

 

[HAL Pilot]

Our CO just said if they were going to get a "warfare pin", then they needed to know the subject thoroughly.

Just like you said, it is NOT a warfare pin.......Putting them through a bridge or CDC watch rotation serves no purpose other than make your CO look like a jackass. After all, it's not a warfare pin right?

Hence the quotes around warfare pin.

There was more to it. The SMO demanding that his guys only do their fam watches at convenient times. Guys not showing up for the fam watches because there was a good movie in the wardroom. The SMO saying that since he was now a Surface Warfare Medical Officer he had URL privileges such as being HMFC of the liberty boats. Etc.

It was the CO's call. not mine. But I hated the "entitlement" attitudes of the the staff guys who basically wanted these pins given to them with no effort on their part. As I said, it was when the pins first came out. Hopefully the requirements matured into something meaningful.

 

[HAL Pilot]

Don't lump this in with the Seabee Combat Warfare Pin that can be obtained in Battalions. CEC may be staff, but we can fight wars too.

Actually I said this in chat. Sea Bees definitely have combat training.

 

[Steve Wilkins]

The SMO saying that since he was now a Surface Warfare Medical Officer he had URL privileges such as being HMFC of the liberty boats.

Haaaaaaaa. That's friggin hillarious.

 

[Steve Wilkins]

Actually I said this in chat. Sea Bees definitely have combat training.

Where is this chat function?

 

[Thisguy]

Guys not showing up for the fam watches because there was a good movie in the wardroom.

Would it have helped if they let you know "Hey, they're showing Die Hard tonight, can we reschedule?"

 

[snizo]

No, it has nothing to do with leadership whether senior or junior. It's because an aircraft carrier isn't about surface warfare. It's about launching and recovering aircraft. Senior leadership actually tends to be quite knowledgable about surface warfare. The carrier operates in an air warfare environment with minor exceptions. The training value of this for surface warfare bubbas is good only to the extent that it provides a God's eye view of the battlespace. For someone with a pin, this is good. For someone just starting out, not so good.

Didn't they stop sending first tour SWOs to carriers for that reason already?

 

[Steve Wilkins]

When I "drive my car" I mean I'm responsible for all aspect of the safe operation of my car, where it goes, and what it does. Seems to me that a CO of a surface ship does the same. Clearly it is more involved than just 'driving' it, but that is one way to sum it up in 5 words or less such that everyone knows what I'm talking about.

But not everyone knows what you're talking about when you refer to driving the ship.

I'm not trying to belittle anyone's community

I would surely hope not. A supply guy trying to belittle a SWO?? Now THAT would be oxymoronic. But I digress....

 

[BackOrdered]

Ahhh...so much Supply hate. I think I'm going to love it in the fleet next year.