Re-designating at OCS (VERY IMPORTANT)

[zippy]

Can't an ejection from anything kill you? Still, I see your point. It was explained to me that you had to be good to go for 2 out of 3 platforms. My NAMI letter never said which ones for me, but the doc at OCS said he thinks it was my sitting height keeping me out of jet and helo trainers. I don't remember my measurements. I could see how the ass-knee thing could be signed off on, but if the canopy won't close and en the seat is all the way down, there is nothing they can do I guess. I suppose that sitting height is probably non-waiverable then.

Eh, they like to say if you eject inside the envelope there is a very high chance of survival. They aren't giving out ejection seat waivers right now.

 

[xmid]

I heard you needed two out of three: helo, maritime, and tailhook, or something like that. I don't know why helo isn't a gimme right there, since you can't eject, so you don't have to worry about shearing your legs off, and I figure since they don't have ejection seats, they can slide their seats forward for people with shorter arms.
We had one of the former in our class, her arms were like a quarter of an inch too short. Why couldn't you do the same thing with the waiver, except reword it to say something like "I understand that if I loosen the harnesses a tiny bit to reach the buttons, I might get killed during ejection"?

I know a female that was anthro'ed from 60 Sierra's and Romeo's because she technically couldn't push all the buttons on the MFD's while her harness was locked. Ironically her squadron switched over and she had no issues. I know of another female 53 pilot that almost got sent to fly something else at the FRS because she couldn't reach everything while strapped in with the harness locked. The focus was more on your fleet aircraft than the intermediates. While they would waive certain requirements for the T-45, if you didn't fit in the hornet or prowler you were definitely going to be anthro'ed out of jets.

@LFCFan Yes ejection is inherently dangerous, but your odds of surviving are greatly diminished if you do not fit the aircraft/seat. If your knees are under the dash there is a good chance they will stay in the aircraft when you eject. If your head is above the top of the seat and the seat strikes the canopy you are going to die. So while it seemed there was a little bit of leeway in the training commands, they were not going to let you potentially do a 20 year career in an aircraft that would almost surely kill you if you had to eject.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

When I spoke to him about it in student pool, he went through MEPS early on in NUPOC, started taking the meds later, but said he kept the Navy abreast of what was going on through whatever means NUPOCers do that. When he went through medical monday and listed some meds they didn't like, he was NPQed on the spot. I never got the impression that he was doing anything fraudulent, but that he got help for a problem and someone in big Navy didn't catch on until he showed up at OCS.

Possible it was overlooked, but ANY psych doc visits or meds require documents to go to N3M, if they did he would have been not allowed to go to OCS, if he told the NRD everything but they failed to submit, well not his fault and I would bet some people at the NRD got a good ass chewing.

Since he stayed in it is a safe bet he told the NRD but they didn't do anything.

and that the recruiter measurement was just to catch people who were way way off. .

That makes sense.

 

[Sonog]

Well... we all know getting selected is difficult in the first place. I think it's fair to say that anyone with a realistic chance of being picked up hasn't only put in a significant effort to put together a strong package, but has also striven to do well in the Navy/life/school prior to ever starting the application. So, I guess this is just another thing to push through. As much as failure wasn't an option before, it's less of one now. Saddle up!

I completed a full long-form flight physical which was reflected in the medical documentation with m package. Having completed the long form, if I were selected for SNA or NFO... would you think that I could relax about the process at OCS, or no?

Relax because its out of your hands and you know that through your first go at the full long form you turned out tip top. Statistically its unlikely that something will turn up the second time that didn't the first. I know some healthy guys who were screwed by 'abnormalities' in the flight physical process, but most don't get the shaft.

 

[LFCFan]

If your head is above the top of the seat and the seat strikes the canopy you are going to die. So while it seemed there was a little bit of leeway in the training commands, they were not going to let you potentially do a 20 year career in an aircraft that would almost surely kill you if you had to eject.

No one had explained to me that the anthro issue was that my head was going through the canopy and not the seat. That makes a lot more sense than "you won't fit in the jet", thanks. In my case there was one email that said "incompatibility with training aircraft", which is frustrating since I probably fit in 60s and any operational aircraft with an ejection seat.

 

[jg54170]

Possible it was overlooked, but ANY psych doc visits or meds require documents to go to N3M, if they did he would have been not allowed to go to OCS, if he told the NRD everything but they failed to submit, well not his fault and I would bet some people at the NRD got a good ass chewing.

Since he stayed in it is a safe bet he told the NRD but they didn't do anything.




That makes sense.

I have seen similar issues with enlisted folks though not out of my station. Paper work is sent to MEPs and not really looked at but the liasons say everything is good to go....shipping day comes and the doctors say WTF, how come the paper work wasn't sent in. Ends up leading to a same day attrite.

OCS doesn't have MEPs taking a look prior to shipping so this would lead to a loss while at OCS.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

I have seen similar issues with enlisted folks though not out of my station. Paper work is sent to MEPs and not really looked at but the liasons say everything is good to go....shipping day comes and the doctors say WTF, how come the paper work wasn't sent in. Ends up leading to a same day attrite.

OCS doesn't have MEPs taking a look prior to shipping so this would lead to a loss while at OCS.

Any medical changes are to go right to N3M once N3M has cleared a person before, and since it goes into MEDWAIVE that is nearly impossible to overlook, so this is either on the OR/Processor or the candidate

 

[jg54170]

Any medical changes are to go right to N3M once N3M has cleared a person before, and since it goes into MEDWAIVE that is nearly impossible to overlook, so this is either on the OR/Processor or the candidate

Definitely, someone dropped the ball on that one. Surprising since it dealt with psychiatric which is usually a big no go.

 

[RiseR 25]

For those who get DQ'd while in OCS and are expecting to redesignate, for example Pilot to INTEL/SWO/etc., don't count on it. Big Navy is stopping this and more than likely you will be sent home if you're not medically qualified for your original designator. When someone redesignates to another community, INTEL for example, it takes away that spot from yearly goals and to those who want to be INTEL officers from the get-go. It also requires NRC to adjust the numbers/quotas for the year.

Of course if you have any questions don't hesitate to ask!

Does this mean NAMI is going to try and keep you onboard for 1390 if there is a hiccup with the flight physical? I know there are things that no medical history or MEPS physical will pick up until you actually complete the flight physical. I know I'm overthinking this one but that seems a little odd being that all candidates are expected to adopt the "Officer First" mentality prior to and throughout OCS. Thanks for the gouge!

 

[LFCFan]

Does this mean NAMI is going to try and keep you onboard for 1390 if there is a hiccup with the flight physical? I know there are things that no medical history or MEPS physical will pick up until you actually complete the flight physical.

It means they are going to send you home if you can't be cleared for flight. "Hiccups" are usually resolved by being sent to off base doctors for evaluation, or other things like minor surgeries, medicines and a stay in student pool after graduation, etc.

I know I'm overthinking this one but that seems a little odd being that all candidates are expected to adopt the "Officer First" mentality prior to and throughout OCS. Thanks for the gouge!

It is odd, but whoever made this decision had numbers to deal with. It isn't uncommon for people who wash out, DOR, or NPQ later down the line from certain programs (BUD/S, flight school) to be separated afterwards, so it was only a matter of time before they started doing it pre-commissioning. I just think the only way to make this work and not waste money and be really unfair to candidates is to do the flight physical before you go. OCS candidates are not a bunch of 22 year olds fresh out of college who went straight to the Navy, a lot of us were older and walked away from jobs, graduate programs, etc, to join, or have families to support. Not the same thing as separating a 22 year old ROTC kid who found out he gets airsick during IFS. Granted, it would still suck regardless of age or accession source, I just think that a lot of OCs have more to lose if they don't commission than a midshipman. And yes, OCS is the cheapest investment so I get that it is easier to let them go than a USNA grad.

 

[RiseR 25]

It means they are going to send you home if you can't be cleared for flight. "Hiccups" are usually resolved by being sent to off base doctors for evaluation, or other things like minor surgeries, medicines and a stay in student pool after graduation, etc.



It is odd, but whoever made this decision had numbers to deal with. It isn't uncommon for people who wash out, DOR, or NPQ later down the line from certain programs (BUD/S, flight school) to be separated afterwards, so it was only a matter of time before they started doing it pre-commissioning. I just think the only way to make this work and not waste money and be really unfair to candidates is to do the flight physical before you go. OCS candidates are not a bunch of 22 year olds fresh out of college who went straight to the Navy, a lot of us were older and walked away from jobs, graduate programs, etc, to join, or have families to support. Not the same thing as separating a 22 year old ROTC kid who found out he gets airsick during IFS. Granted, it would still suck regardless of age or accession source, I just think that a lot of OCs have more to lose if they don't commission than a midshipman. And yes, OCS is the cheapest investment so I get that it is easier to let them go than a USNA grad.

Now that you put it that way it makes more sense. Thank you. I agree that SNA and SNFO selects should get a flight physical before any of this stuff happens, it would save time and money especially for you guys that leave careers when you decide to go to OCS. I do understand this is the way it is set up and we currently have to make due with the current established medical evaluations for those career fields. I think it would make sense to have everyone go to MEPS and N3M before submitting a packet (which is the direction they seem to be going right now) and then doing a flight physical after Pro-Rec SNA/SNFO with the FINSEL conditional on a flight physical. I suppose the way everything is set up right now works best for the pipelines.

 

[A$AP]

So there is no longer the option of redesignating from SNA to SNFO if they NPQ you after OCS?

 

[Tycho_Brohe]

So there is no longer the option of redesignating from SNA to SNFO if they NPQ you after OCS?

Judging from his phrasing, not necessarily, since they're still in the same community. As long as what you're getting DQ'ed for wouldn't preclude you from doing so (e.g., anthro, since you'll still need to fit in most of the same trainers).

 

[A$AP]

Judging from his phrasing, not necessarily, since they're still in the same community. As long as what you're getting DQ'ed for wouldn't preclude you from doing so (e.g., anthro, since you'll still need to fit in most of the same trainers).

Ah gotcha. I'm waiting word on my application for SNA/ NFO/ SWO and recently had to deal with some eyesight waivers after a bad test at MEPS. I had been deemed 20/60 in one eye, 20/80 in the other, and only correctable to 20/25 at MEPS, literally 3 days after a civilian doctor tested me at 20/30 in both, but correctable to 20/20. I wanted to clear that up with waivers instead of settling for a "what if" situation, but would be just as happy as an NFO if it comes to that.

I was worried at first by this thread that if the NAMI whammy deemed my eyesight worse than my civilian doctor deemed it that I would now be unable to re-des to NFO. Time will tell, but you've quelled some of my anxiety-- thanks Tycho!

By the way-- cool to see you're from Albany-- Saranac Lake here! I did MEPS in Colonie back in October.

 

[Tycho_Brohe]

Ah gotcha. I'm waiting word on my application for SNA/ NFO/ SWO and recently had to deal with some eyesight waivers after a bad test at MEPS. I had been deemed 20/60 in one eye, 20/80 in the other, and only correctable to 20/25 at MEPS, literally 3 days after a civilian doctor tested me at 20/30 in both, but correctable to 20/20. I wanted to clear that up with waivers instead of settling for a "what if" situation, but would be just as happy as an NFO if it comes to that.

I was worried at first by this thread that if the NAMI whammy deemed my eyesight worse than my civilian doctor deemed it that I would now be unable to re-des to NFO. Time will tell, but you've quelled some of my anxiety-- thanks Tycho!

By the way-- cool to see you're from Albany-- Saranac Lake here! I did MEPS in Colonie back in October.

Nice, a fellow Upstate New Yorker I did mine in Albany, actually I had similar eyesight issues, but my problem was depth perception, so I got rechecked by a civilian eye doc, who gave me the all-clear. I figure the difference must've been dehydration and lack of sleep as to why I performed so poorly at MEPS, but I digress.
The other consideration would be the number of slots vs. the number of applicants they currently take, which Rufio is better equipped to talk about than me. It's my understanding that they usually leave a little wiggle room in the quotas because people tend to re-des from Pilot to NFO for eyesight issues. So if they keep doing this, then hopefully they can continue to accommodate those re-designations.