Ratio/Score

[KBayDog]

Additionally, a 5 on IGPs (which you can do to DEATH ) is worth just as much as a 5 on Landings or pattern work. If you're worried, memorize your EPs verbatim WITH Notes warning cautions and be able to spit them out faster than the average dude can read them (very doable) then you'll pick up a lot of 5's on EPs and even get the 5 in General Knowledge at lot of times as well. At the end of primary I looked at that summary sheet and over 40% of my 5's were from General Knowledge, EPs, and IGPs alone

So what you're tryin' to say is, if you come in prepared for each and every flight knowing and demonstrating things that are 100% within your control (i.e., acing your required knowledge, being confident in diagnosing and handling emergencies, having the foresight to check the health of your aircraft from time to time, etc.), your grades will reflect? This strategy sounds like it would also give the IP confidence that you know what you're doing and want to be there, and could allow the flight to focus almost completely on working on the mission at hand (monkey skills, nav, etc.) Hmm... I might have to try this sometime! (Sounds a lot easier - and cheaper - than, say, trying to get "the edge" by a paying for a PPL before API. )

...I'm not so sure I want them on my wing any time soon.

How is that section lead syllabus coming?

 

[MIDNJAC]

A 22 winger? I understand that the way it works (final NSS is only based off of completers) that SOMEBODY has to be at the bottom, but I'm not so sure I want them on my wing any time soon.

Granted this would have never occured in TH when either of us went through (I'm assuming you winged before the MPTS switch), buuuuttt........from what I saw in jet VT's, the difference in a lot of stages between being average and end staging was like a couple aboves vs straight avgs. I'd also say that the difference between the guys who finished below 50 and those who finished above 50 was not as great or noticeable as people thought at the time. Doing dumb shit in fast jets is an equal opportunity employer.

 

[draad]

CO in primary said it best: "If I lined up every student I had flown with that had a 30-70 NSS and was told to guess what each of their NSS's were, I'd have better luck at the craps table" Sure IPs can pick out some who MIGHT be in the 70s or 20s, but beyond that the difference in capabilities of the students are so miniscule that most of them couldn't tell beyond that.

 

[zippy]

CO in primary said it best: "If I lined up every student I had flown with that had a 30-70 NSS and was told to guess what each of their NSS's were, I'd have better luck at the craps table" Sure IPs can pick out some who MIGHT be in the 70s or 20s, but beyond that the difference in capabilities of the students are so miniscule that most of them couldn't tell beyond that.

That's probably because the CO doesn't fly that much compared to the line IPs... And maybe was trying to be nice. When flying 2-3Xs a day with studs is your primary job- you start too get a feel for it

 

[MasterBates]

35 was needed for helos in 02-03.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

 

[guim13]

Or you can go to Vance, be 13 out of 22 on the Air Force system, but get a 33 NSS and get the boot. FML

 

[draad]

That's probably because the CO doesn't fly that much compared to the line IPs... And maybe was trying to be nice. When flying 2-3Xs a day with studs is your primary job- you start too get a feel for it

The CO actually did a whole tour as an IP in the primary VTs before coming back. Then as the XO, he actually flew a LOT as he led the transition from T-34s to T-6Bs for VT-6. He wasn't saying he couldn't feel out the rockstars and marginals, he just said between about the 40-60 ranger, or even the 30-70 in some cases, the difference in student ability was hard to tell, especially since sometimes a student will have an awesome flight or a shitty flight. So unless he flew with a kid more than a few times, it was hard to tell.

 

[AGonxAV8R]

35 was needed for helos in 02-03.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

Still is, but depending on the circumstances something below a 35 might get you wings on the Navy side. On the Marine side, you are gone from aviation with anything close to a 35 or below.

In Primary, at least in Corpus, if the stud had below a 35; he would stay there and do the P-3C pipeline.

 

[AGonxAV8R]

Completer doesn't mean "pass". Completers attrite if they have a low NSS. A 50 NSS in my VT was around a 1.145ish. But realized that the whole 40-60 NSS range was 1.40-1.50 or so, the changes are pretty small. As someone said, you make your money at the BEGINNING of each block when MIF is low. A 4 when something's MIF is 3 is worth just as much as a 5 when MIF is 4. Additionally, a 5 on IGPs (which you can do to DEATH ) is worth just as much as a 5 on Landings or pattern work. If you're worried, memorize your EPs verbatim WITH Notes warning cautions and be able to spit them out faster than the average dude can read them (very doable) then you'll pick up a lot of 5's on EPs and even get the 5 in General Knowledge at lot of times as well. At the end of primary I looked at that summary sheet and over 40% of my 5's were from General Knowledge, EPs, and IGPs alone

For Primary, the best bet is to make the money on the BI sims. If the stud can manage a 60 or even a 70 NSS on those, he can be set nicely if he does not efff it aways during RIs. Of course he has to be able to do well on Contact, but BIs are heavy as it is low MIF.

 

[Random Task]

That's probably because the CO doesn't fly that much compared to the line IPs... And maybe was trying to be nice. When flying 2-3Xs a day with studs is your primary job- you start too get a feel for it

Well said. There are MAJOR differences in student skill level and it's not that hard to pick out the 40s and the 60s. Flying at faster airspeeds might make it more noticeable too but who knows.

Additionally, a 5 on IGPs (which you can do to DEATH ) is worth just as much as a 5 on Landings or pattern work. If you're worried, memorize your EPs verbatim WITH Notes warning cautions and be able to spit them out faster than the average dude can read them (very doable) then you'll pick up a lot of 5's on EPs and even get the 5 in General Knowledge at lot of times as well. At the end of primary I looked at that summary sheet and over 40% of my 5's were from General Knowledge, EPs, and IGPs alone

I'm with you on the EPs and Gen Knowledge being important but, if all your "good grades" came from your ability to brief well and do IGPs, it won't get you far
when coming to jet skewl where on of the graded items might as well be "ability to shut up/join up". IPs brief and 15 min reports are just that...for every 15 min not every min. If you give one every minute...facepalm. (Side note I too had most of my "good grades" from the same category and coming to jet skewl required a transition in my mindset)

 

[81montedriver]

Or you can go to Vance, be 13 out of 22 on the Air Force system, but get a 33 NSS and get the boot. FML

This is definately true because they have a different grading system. The way they get ranked is not necessarily completely based on flight/academic grades. They are also ranked according to personality, work ethic, ability to learn quickly, bearing etc. Slightly different but it still gets the right guys to the right places.

At the same time, you still need to do the same things to do well. Know your memory items COLD (even more so with the USAF including punctuation!), know your systems, show up to your flights prepared and plan 2 or 3 three flights ahead.

As for the Marine/Navy studs being allowed more failures I can live with that. It's not that the IP's grade much harder, it's because they will down you for a flight MUCH quicker than in Corpus or Whiting. We had a girl in my class who was right at the 8 failure mark and still passed and ended up winging. Amazing.

 

[guim13]

My ranking was without the commander's eval. ( I used it on my request mast) Their system puts a higher weight on checkrides, and sims do not count. I just got picked up by the Guard, so I may be back in Enid in a AF uniform.

 

[draad]

Well said. There are MAJOR differences in student skill level and it's not that hard to pick out the 40s and the 60s. Flying at faster airspeeds might make it more noticeable too but who knows.

I'm with you on the EPs and Gen Knowledge being important but, if all your "good grades" came from your ability to brief well and do IGPs, it won't get you far
when coming to jet skewl where on of the graded items might as well be "ability to shut up/join up". IPs brief and 15 min reports are just that...for every 15 min not every min. If you give one every minute...facepalm. (Side note I too had most of my "good grades" from the same category and coming to jet skewl required a transition in my mindset)

Getting to jet "skewl" on EPs/Gen Knowledge/IGPs is the whole point. Who cares if it gets you any further or not. At any advanced pipeline I think it's assumed you know your EPs (you SHOULD) and in a single engined Goshawk, you BETTER be watching your fuel more often than every 15 minutes even though you're only doing a report every 15. Grades are important in primary to get jets/whatever-you're-trying-to-select. After primary, it's about knowing your shit the best you can and getting winged....

 

[Random Task]

Getting to jet "skewl" on EPs/Gen Knowledge/IGPs is the whole point. Who cares if it gets you any further or not. At any advanced pipeline I think it's assumed you know your EPs (you SHOULD) and in a single engined Goshawk, you BETTER be watching your fuel more often than every 15 minutes even though you're only doing a report every 15. Grades are important in primary to get jets/whatever-you're-trying-to-select. After primary, it's about knowing your shit the best you can and getting winged....

Sounds like you've figured out the game. True, after primary it is about knowing your shit and doing the best you can and getting winged, but there are people, not just a few, who do just that minus the getting winged part. Success in primary =/= success in advanced. If your success in primary came from only those categories we mentioned while getting average grades on the actual flying part it will show up real quick in a jet. If you rocked EPs, and airwork then you'll probably do great.

As far as fuel goes it is of course monitored throughout the flight but you don't get accolades for doing so, I wouldn't mention fuel checks or 15 min reports on a grade sheet unless the stud didn't do them at which point it would be hammered in how important fuel is (i.e. if the bingo bug goes off for 6 min 23s with nothing said, you will get your poop reinserted where the sun don't shine but that should only happened once.)

I think we are saying the same thing which is that all the stuff that you might get a pat on the back for in primary is expected in advanced. What I'm adding is that it does matter if you get any further cause isn't that the point... i.e. wings? Grades, like you say, matter to get you what you want out of primary, but they also keep you in advanced. A number of people are shown the door out because they couldn't maintain their grades. Even if you get jets out of pimary you still have to have the grades to remain in phase 2, then you have to have good grades to select what aircraft you want, then you have to perform well to get good jobs and so on...it's a never ending race.

 

[wlawr005]

So to be a good pilot I have to brief well AND fly well? Holy shit...