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Random Griz Aviation Musings

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
Wait what?

Isn't legal per your GOM/FOM? As far as the FAR's are concerned FF is perfectly legal to obtain an IFR wx brief from. I'm guessing your FOM specifically lists company approved sources and FF isn't on that list....?
Part 135.213a states:

Whenever a person operating an aircraft under this part is required to use a weather report or forecast, that person shall use that of the U.S. National Weather Service, a source approved by the U.S. National Weather Service, or a source approved by the Administrator. However, for operations under VFR, the pilot in command may, if such a report is not available, use weather information based on that pilot's own observations or on those of other persons competent to supply appropriate observations.

This has been interpreted as either ADDS or 1800WXBRIEF (or DUATS, previously), or utilizing FSS. FF is a hybrid weather source, so not technically legal. HEMS Tool is also a hybrid product, so not legal to launch on, but legal to decline with. So if filing/flying IFR, a valid brief is required, which means either FSS or WXBRIEF briefing.

You can still file through FF, which I do all the time, although I'm finding the IAF doesn't seem to be getting to Center when I go home, or they're just ignoring it, which is very possible.

ETA, this doesn't mean I don't use FF privately. Just speaking to Part 135 ops.
 

ChuckMK23

Instructor, Flight.
pilot
Part 135.213a states:

Whenever a person operating an aircraft under this part is required to use a weather report or forecast, that person shall use that of the U.S. National Weather Service, a source approved by the U.S. National Weather Service, or a source approved by the Administrator. However, for operations under VFR, the pilot in command may, if such a report is not available, use weather information based on that pilot's own observations or on those of other persons competent to supply appropriate observations.

This has been interpreted as either ADDS or 1800WXBRIEF (or DUATS, previously), or utilizing FSS. FF is a hybrid weather source, so not technically legal. HEMS Tool is also a hybrid product, so not legal to launch on, but legal to decline with. So if filing/flying IFR, a valid brief is required, which means either FSS or WXBRIEF briefing.

You can still file through FF, which I do all the time, although I'm finding the IAF doesn't seem to be getting to Center when I go home, or they're just ignoring it, which is very possible.

ETA, this doesn't mean I don't use FF privately. Just speaking to Part 135 ops.
Interesting!

I can tell you this is not interpreted universally the same for 135 ops. I know of 135 operators using FF exclusively.
Foreflight was on the FAA Administrator Approved list of qualified weather sources in 2012. In 2013, FAA droppedthe Qualified Internet Communications Providers program and killed AC 00-62. So I can tell you other Part 135 operators have interpreted the opposite - that FF is perfectly legal for use as a briefing source. But as in a lot of things - not every FAR is interpreted the same by everyone - and thats ok. Again YMMV.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
I can't tell you if it's the company or the FSDO that's reading it this way, but it is what it is. I think our IFR guru is coming this month for recurrent. Do you have a link to the approved list? It would be handy to have to ask the question.

I'll do some Googling later. For now, I'm seriously involved in The Americans and getting standbys stood down.
 

ChuckMK23

Instructor, Flight.
pilot
I can't tell you if it's the company or the FSDO that's reading it this way, but it is what it is. I think our IFR guru is coming this month for recurrent. Do you have a link to the approved list? It would be handy to have to ask the question.

I'll do some Googling later. For now, I'm seriously involved in The Americans and getting standbys stood down.
I'll do the same - so curious now!

The Americans is fantastic and the ending is epic! Some of the best characters in television drama.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
Did some more research, but not sure I found an answer.

From what I've been able to find on the internet, there has been no new list put out by the FAA, other than them saying you can use "Internet Weather Providers." Our Op-Specs (A010) just repeat .213a and says "NWS or products approved by the NWS..." which just puts us into a circular reference loop.

8900.1 (CHG 447...I think that's the current one) defines Supplementary Weather products as:

"Weather information obtained outside of the certificate holder’s/program manager’s system and/or procedures for obtaining weather information (e.g., via television, public radio, or personal handheld device)"

And that Supplementary Weather Products won't be approved in an Op Spec because it's not intended to be used that way. BUT...obviously use of a personal handheld device still happens to get briefings (1800WXBRIEF), so that definition isn't even really correct.

From a regulatory standpoint, it appears there's reasons on why not to use FF, but not a reason that actually makes sense with reality. Also from my Googling, it seems the FSDOs were caught flat-footed with the loss of AC 00-62, as well.

<shrugs> Time to get paid to sleep.
 

ChuckMK23

Instructor, Flight.
pilot
I connected with one of the pilots at my old program here in The Queen City - Metro Aviation has the contract, and they fly H145's SP IFR under Part 135. Confirmed they use Foreflight WX briefing for VFR and IFR operations.

My guess is its individual company interpretation - which is not surprising given how the FAR is worded.
 
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Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
I connected with one of the pilots at my old program here in The Queen City - Metro Aviation has the contract, and they fly H145's SP IFR under Part 135. Confirmed they use Foreflight WX briefing for VFR and IFR operations.

My guess is its individual company interpretation - which is not surprising given how the FAR is worded.
It would be interesting to see how their A010 is written, because in the end, that's what will matter (for whatever interpretation).
 

HAL Pilot

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
Well I cant give an official answer until I am sworn in at the end of the month!
Even then it doesn’t really count. Only opinions from the FAA Legal Counsel Office count. FSDO opinions are valid within that FSDO until they’re not. Usually when they get challenged.
 

ChuckMK23

Instructor, Flight.
pilot
Honestly I am still trying to understand what my job responsibilities will even be. All I know is that I get to fly multi-engine airplanes and helicopters again and make a pretty decent salary and have retirement continuation from my military active duty years but the actual duties of my position I'm still trying to understand.
 

ChuckMK23

Instructor, Flight.
pilot
Well, @ChuckMK23, does your job have a fancy title?
These were the base job requirements:
(A) Valid, unexpired Flight Instructor Certificate with single and multi-engine airplane and instrument airplane rating;

(B) Professional flying skill as demonstrated in a flight check to Commercial Pilot Certificate with an instrument rating;

(C) Possession of Airline Transport Pilot Certificate or Commercial Pilot Certificate with instrument airplane rating;

(D) Minimum of 200 flight hour within the last 3 years;

(E) Minimum of 2500 total flight hours;

(F) Possession of single and multi engine land airplane ratings; and

(G) Not more than 2 separate incidents involving Federal Aviation Regulation violations in the last 5 years;

(H) Possess a valid second-class medical certificate in accordance with Federal Aviation Agency (FAA) regulations

Having a current CFI/CFII for Helo was also a big plus in my favor. FAA is in a fairly significant personnel hiring phase. Vacancies created by the 121 hiring obviously a driving force. With these kind of hiring mins the ideal candidate is already on a career track to a major already and it's hard to compete. Hence opportunity!

The promise of flying a variety of aircraft and an opportunity to earn a FERS benefit from my 9 years of AD was very appealing!

FBI background is almost wrapped up and I'm headed to Ft Worth in a couple of weeks to take a checkride. I have the conditional offer letter in hand. Will share more once I'm through the next gate.
 
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mad dog

is friends with the world famous poopy eared owl
pilot
Contributor
Cool beans, @ChuckMK23!

So...$5 question for @ChuckMK23...will you be an abider once you’re sworn in? :D

In unrelated news, here’s a cool retro flick from 1979 for @FrankTheTank...

...looks like a 727-200 at the end of the flick...I got to sit sideways for almost a year in one of those at Delta [until I got furloughed] as a new hire back in 2001...

 
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