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Radio Work
- Thread starter FelixTheGreat
- Start date
Everyone who has commented herein has their "own" opinion of COMM and COMM procedures and brevity. Obviously ...
You will not have a problem making the COMM transition from the civilian world to the military world. If you do ... you shouldn't be there (here?
) in the first place .... Bottom line: when in Rome, do as the Romans do .... i.e., there is a civilian COMM world (think Olathe, KS, Toto) a high-density civilian COMM world (think JFK, ORD, or LAX), a NAVAIR TRACOM world (think NPA), and a "Fleet" world (think USS BOAT) ... all of them having a slightly "different" perspective on what is/is not proper COMM procedure and terminology. Do what you are suppose to do for each given setting you find yourself in and there will be no problems.
The hardest "transition" for me, personally, was moving back (backwards?) into the"tighter" (more up-tight?) civilian world of "proper" COMM after being immersed in the relatively laid-back "Fleet" COMM mentality for so many years. An even greater revisionist "COMM teacher" was flying internationally in the civilian world and entering a high density control zone. There -- you MUST do it by the numbers if you are to understand and be understood.
Again, do what you have to do (and what you're SUPPOSE to do) for the arena you are flying into ... problem all gone.
Oh yeah ... and don't forget to listen up.
what was told to me during primary is that you are being graded per the FWOP, so if you say EXACTLY what is in the FWOP in the boldface print then AT primary you cant go wrong, all they have to grade you on is the MPTS and the FWOP so say exactly as in the FWOP. Flight school is black and white in the begining.
Key words here are "in the beginning". You get a taste of real world comms on a primary cross country, and get to practice even more in advanced and after wings. The key to primary comms in contacts (FAMS for you old farts) is making it standardized for the sake of learning and brevity. Once you get into later stages, you can start getting "out of the box" and using real world stuff. Even after wings, flying in the big bad real world, the same three steps always apply: Think, key, speak. As long as you are concise and say what you need to, then you are getting the job done. You will (probably) know if you are jacked up.
I always tell my students who are struggling with real-world comms to go to one of those ATC feed websites (atclive, I think) and listen while they are studying.
RE: a previous post pertaining to throwing out "good morning" and such nonsense over the radios:
WTF cares? As long as it is in a non-busy environment, for example with ARTCC or checking in with a non-saturated approach controller, I always find it makes flying a little more enjoyable to exchange greetings with controllers or throwing a "good day" on the end of a handoff. It is kind of like asking for sports scores, it breaks up the freaking monotony sometimes.
Obviously if you are checking in to Tampa Approach during rush hour, you are going to be all business and even then lucky to get a word in. I once got told by Tampa "Last aircraft spoke too fast, try me again in a couple minutes".
This is a bit of a pet peeve of mine. When I am flying with a brand-new copilot I prefer him to use standard terminology, "Jax approach, C/S, level 4,000", or "Miami Center, C/S, flight level 180". If they are new they need to know the proper way before throwing out the "with you" and "good morning". And it will completely chap my hide flying through a busy terminal area and someone says a bunch of extraneous stuff. Save the conversation with approach for less busy areas.
I guess some of my attitude is from the F-111 Air Farce LTCOL who I flew with in VT-3 on a cross country (he was the CO). He would become unglued if I responded to a traffic call with "Roger, Navy C/S, looking", "Talley" or I checked in with a "With you, at..." There is something to be said for sounding professional and knowing when to relax with controllers.
I guess some of my attitude is from the F-111 Air Farce LTCOL who I flew with in VT-3 on a cross country (he was the CO). He would become unglued if I responded to a traffic call with "Roger, Navy C/S, looking", "Talley" or I checked in with a "With you, at..." There is something to be said for sounding professional and knowing when to relax with controllers.
My grandma could make appropriate radio calls trucking around at FL300 as long as I strapped a scanner to her wheelchair for the next 2 months. So whatever someone sounds like enroute is none of my business, brevity is nice, but my colleagues can say whatever they want, experience will show them what sounds right, and they'll figure it out. What impresses me is these HUD tapes you see of these guys fighting SAM's and MIG's in Vietnam, trying to help out their buddy, yada yada yada.....now THAT'S comm.
I often throw in a salutation at the end of the flight (or Switching ATC's) IF they are not busy. I always get the same in reply. When I was flying out of Italy I had to start my ground call with a "Chow" to receive any type of good service. And usually they responded the same way back.
But if my student is having problems doing the basics then I tell them to stick to the basics.
"Nice radio call"
"Thanks Sir"
"Now I got you high, slow and off heading, but nice radio call."
Classic - nothing like dropping Bernoulli to carry Marconi. It is always worth it to emphasize to students that gravity has done more damage than the entire electromagnetic spectrum can ever hope to do.
For me personally, unless you are going through O'Hare at rush hour, there is nothing wrong with being polite to controllers. A "good morning" will earn you a heck of a lot more good will than rushing through an abbreviated call that the controller needs you to repeat.
That's what I used my entire flying career, military or civilian. I still use it when looking for a clean pair of socks in the morning ... it used to freak out some of my civilian trained brethren in the airlines and thus was especially sweet for me .....
Can you imagine what it did to the Jap-anese and the Chinese airmen and controllers ???? The Filipinos seemed to "get it' .....
Had a flight during primary in Corpus that honestly was NOT going well. The flight was not with my on-wing which will be important in a minute. In any event, on the way back into the field I initially identified myself as "Bommer XXX" and on the following call simply replied (or started, can't remember) as XXX for brevity as my on-wing had told me to (especially in the congested area). Well, I got royally grilled by the IP for it as it wasn't per the FTI or whatever it was. Funny thing is that about a month later I was flying with the squadron CO and he told me a couple times that after initial check-in I could drop the squadron call-sign for the numbers. Go figure. My advice would be to stick with the full deal until the IP tells you otherwise or just ask in the brief.
Now when you get to instruments, the calls once you are off the ground are pretty much the same, just a little different on deck. I still carry an instrument comm card in my kneeboard just in case. Always better to have to double check vice sounding like a moron. And whatever you do, always sound cool on the radios.
Now when you get to instruments, the calls once you are off the ground are pretty much the same, just a little different on deck. I still carry an instrument comm card in my kneeboard just in case. Always better to have to double check vice sounding like a moron. And whatever you do, always sound cool on the radios.
So today in the sim's, first instructor tells me "make sure you do PTA reports when entering holding, but when leaving there is no format, you can say whatever you want". Bring in my second sim instructor of the day, after I say, Shooter 123 departing holding picks, he says "whats the proper format? Remember its PTA in and PTA out of holding always." Sigh I was just laughing in the sim...it just blows my mind...
that sounds like a good night at the bar amirite?
If everyone in primary right now posted a story about sim instructors gross lack of standardization, I think we would overload the internet.
After a few tiffs with the sim instructors, I made sure I made all my radio calls by the book. When I was on my CCX, I was corrected multiple times by by instructor and by ATC controllers. I was the jackass on the radio making long winded calls. The sims were soooo worthless.