Question for a Doc, or anyone with an opinion (guess that's everyone huh?)

[fc2spyguy]

Ok, I sent my flight physical to the guy in charge of getting all of the STA-21 selects info. He noted that I had a loss of consciousness a long time back and asked for the med report from the incident. Well, that's a problem. Because, looking in my record there was basically nothing there. A little insert that said "Closed head injury" and that I was SIQ for a day and to come back for a checkup. Nothing else is listed on the injury. He then said I might need to be checked out. Well, here is what I remember of the incident.

First of all I don't remember much from that day. Some of it is based on a note left on my desk that I saw when I woke up in the morning. Apparently I was playing tackle football outside the A-school barracks in great lakes. I was tackled after catching a pass. According to my friends I kept saying, "I feel like I just woke up” over and over again. They realized after a few minutes that something was wrong. They brought me to the clinic and had me checked out. I think (trying to remember what the note said more than 7 years ago) that the doc said I had a concussion and that I needed to come back in the morning. So, they brought me back to the barracks and got me into my room. Well I had kept leaving my room because one of the few things I remember was constantly going to the barracks office and asking the people if I needed to give them the SIQ chit. Well, I guess they realized I was messed up and they got me back to my room.

So, I wake up in the morning pretty much clueless. I don't know what part of school I'm in nor what day it is or anything else. I wake up confused and see the note explaining the prior days experiences. I head to medical and I don't think they believed me at all. I kept getting looks from the corpsman and nurse/doc like I was a loony or something. So, I think that's why there isn't a follow up in my record. Another thing that happened as a result was minor amnesia. I couldn't remember various little things like my atm pin number, which cause a whole hell of a lot more problems but that's a different post.

So, my question is this. Could this be disqualifying for flight school even though there have been no other problems since? No loss of consciousness or headaches or anything like that.

 

[trongod46]

might want to keep out some of the fuzzy details and just state the facts, i got wacked in the head playing football. bad headache no problems since.,

 

[Banjo33]

Listen to trongod! We just lost a stud up here in Meridian recently. He wrecked his bike, hit his head, lost consciousness, and can't remember the rest of the day (there may be a couple of details I'm forgetting). Nammi NPQ'ed him and now he's hoping for a new job (LtJG).

 

[SteveG75]

Careful, the incident is already documented in your medical record so lieing about it to NAMI will get you booted fast enough to cause another blackout. Be forthright and honest. There are tests that they can do to determine if any permanent damage was done. Almost anything can be waived.

My story:
Cruise 1993. Midair. Ejection. (Long story that will cost beers to be told in full) Anyway, remember trying to reach the handle then remember being in the water looking at the helo. In and out of consciousness for the next couple of hours. Was sent to the beach for a CAT scan and then had to do a "neuro-psych" eval at Madigan Army Hospital after cruise.

Now, I was a winged fleet aviator not a student but, just like security background checks, covering something up will definitely be worse in the long run.

My final $0.02. Find a local flight surgeon and be honest with him. He can probably get you set up with any specialized tests that you need.

 

[kmac]

Has anyone encountered an evil flight surgeon? I ask this because I've heard stories about docs wanting to down you and so forth. Every single doc I've encountered has been very professional and willing to give me some slack here or there. Granted I don't get sick much but nonetheless it's comforting to know they're not out to screw you.
SteveG- Were things different back in the day?

 

[feddoc]

Steve is right. Someone somewhere in the Navy knows about your incident. You are far better off to get this taken care of the right way. From your description of the incident it appears as though a waiver is not needed.



http://www.nomi.med.navy.mil/Nami/WaiverGuideTopics/neurology.htm#Syncope

10.9 SYNCOPE Rev AUG 94


AEROMEDICAL CONCERNS: Loss of consciousness in flight.

WAIVER: A waiver is not required for simple episodes of vasovagal syncope, with known precipitating causes such as pain of the sight of blood. Normal physiological syncope in response to a training event, (example: hypoxia demonstration in a hypobaric chamber or G-induced loss of consciousness (G-LOC) in a centrifuge) does not require a waiver. A waiver is necessary for unexplained syncope, recurrent syncope, syncope associated with pathology (e.g. cardiac conduction or valvular defect), syncope with LOC > 1 minute or delay in recovery of normal function > 5 minutes or G-LOC > 18 seconds or associated with convulsions lasting over 6 seconds. Non-waiverable situational syncope includes cough-, postural-, Valsalva-, and exertional-induced syncope.

INFORMATION REQUIRED: A detailed history of the event(s) is required. Physical exam and EKG should be included and, when indicated (see Syncope algorithm following page), additional cardiovascular studies, psychiatric evaluation, etc. [Note: Syncope Algorithm has not been included in this electronic version for technical reasons.]

TREATMENT: Avoidance, if possible, of known stressors.

DISCUSSION: In 12% of patients with syncope, some type of convulsive movement may occur. Careful history taking, the presence of facial pallor and the rapid recovery without amnesia help to distinguish syncope from epilepsy. Head injury sustained during the fall may confuse the issue. Presence or absence of incontinence does not help in distinguishing between syncope and seizure. Tongue-biting is strong evidence in support of a seizure and unlikely in syncope. Recurrent, unexplained syncope often can be attributed to psychiatric causes, especially panic disorder, depression and somatization. Brain scans, EEGs, carotid ultrasound and lab tests are not usually helpful in arriving at a cause for syncope. If the history, PE and EKG don't provide the diagnosis, it is unlikely that further studies will help. In cases of cough-, Valsalva- and exertion-induced syncope remember to consider posterior fossa pathology, especially Arnold-Chiari malformation.

780.2 Syncope

 

[SteveG75]

SteveG- Were things different back in the day?

Of course. We walked to work, barefoot, in the snow, uphill, both ways.

First cruise - 1993, snail mail only.
Second cruise - 1995, snail mail + $1/minute sailor phones
Third cruise - 1997-98, group email, one account for the whole ready room.
Fourth cruise - 2003, personal email, web access (slow).

As for docs, any doc can down you (even a corpsman) but only a flight surgeon can give you an up-chit. Flight surgeons work with us and understand us. Other docs can be less forgiving.

 

[fc2spyguy]

Ok, follow up question. I fully divulged this info during my flight physical. The flight surgeon didn't have any problems with it. However, he's an Army flight surgeon apparantly with some NASA cert (not sure what the dif is). Is it likely the Navy require one of our own docs to talk to me?

 

[feddoc]

Ok, follow up question. I fully divulged this info during my flight physical. The flight surgeon didn't have any problems with it. However, he's an Army flight surgeon apparantly with some NASA cert (not sure what the dif is). Is it likely the Navy require one of our own docs to talk to me?

Probably so. The Navy docs will most likely like to poke and prod you a bit.

Given the time frame (7 years ago) and the circumstances as they are described here, I would guess that the Navy docs will be far more concerned IF any unexplained LOCs have happened since. They will likely do some simple neurological tests or they may ship you out in town for a CAT scan but I would expect that will be the end of it.


However, there are a couple of questions I have. How long were you out?


If that time is known, was it documented in your record?

 

[fc2spyguy]

Time I was out is unknown, and zero documentation of any loc other than my reporting in 5 year physical and flight physical.

 

[bunk22]

My story:
Cruise 1993. Midair. Ejection

If you don't mind me asking, who was your pilot or the pilot of the other A-6 (if it was an A-6)? When I was going through advanced in the old VT-4 (used to be the advanced for E2/C2 pilots), we had an instructor who flew A-6's and was involved in a midair then ejection. I think his name was Doby Gillis. Good dude and good instructor.

 

[gringo]

i was knocked out in a hockey game like 5 years ago...do i have to tell them about it? will that hurt my application? and do they have to know or will they eventually find out?

 

[feddoc]

Time I was out is unknown, and zero documentation of any loc other than my reporting in 5 year physical and flight physical.

Given what has been written here, I think things will go as I suggested above.

 

[feddoc]

i was knocked out in a hockey game like 5 years ago...do i have to tell them about it?


will that hurt my application?



and do they have to know or will they eventually find out?

Who is them?
Application to what?
Yes, they should and they probably will anyway.

 

[gringo]

sorry left out some info....them would be the docs..application would be marine aviation. but would that hurt my chances or is it no biggy? i did have a concussion but i didnt miss any games.