Q'ns about retired airframe

[Gatordev]

When I was at HSC-28 we'd take off VFR as BAY RAIDER XX but in the off chance we filed IFR it would be BRAVO ROMEO XX...BR was our tail code...coincidence only. HSC-22 is CRUSADER with an AM tail code.

It's how the callsign/FAA/Navy relationship works. BAY RAIDER was your JANAP. BR (and I get the amusing coincidence that the tail code matches that) is what you "should" (shall) file with outside of your local area. The fact that you're saying you use your JANAP IFR is interesting. A fact close to my heart when we used to be able to use ("legally") our JANAP beyond the local area.

In the fighter community we share tail codes and take off VFR with our tail code + side number.

For the record, the reason you "share your tailcode" is because you're in the same airwing. That's the whole point of your tailcode. It identifies who you're attached to. Atlantic airwings: Ax. Pacific airwings: Nx. The whole "Echo" thing was TW-5. And so on.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

It's how the callsign/FAA/Navy relationship works. BAY RAIDER was your JANAP. BR (and I get the amusing coincidence that the tail code matches that) is what you "should" (shall) file with outside of your local area. The fact that you're saying you use your JANAP IFR is interesting. A fact close to my heart when we used to be able to use ("legally") our JANAP beyond the local area.



For the record, the reason you "share your tailcode" is because you're in the same airwing. That's the whole point of your tailcode. It identifies who you're attached to. Atlantic airwings: Ax. Pacific airwings: Nx. The whole "Echo" thing was TW-5. And so on.

Marine squadrons all have their own tail codes unless they’re a hornet squadron attached to a carrier air wing.

I’ve never filed or heard of someone filing with anything other than their squadron callsign and then a number. Ranger Blazer Mars Cat Fox Easy. Not that I don’t believe you, I’ve just never seen it.

 

[Gatordev]

Marine squadrons all have their own tail codes unless they’re a hornet squadron attached to a carrier air wing.

I’ve never filed or heard of someone filing with anything other than their squadron callsign and then a number. Ranger Blazer Mars Cat Fox Easy. Not that I don’t believe you, I’ve just never seen it.

Each Navy squadron has their own squadron callsign and unique tail code, as well (except the TRAWINGs and some Reserve squadrons), if they're Exped. Otherwise they're sharing the CVW tailcode (Nx or Ax). We (Navy and Marines) are all operating off the same rule book, I just don't think people (not specifically you, just people in general) don't understand why the tailcodes are setup the way they are.

As for you only seeing callsign and number when filing, I don't doubt it. It seems the tailhook community does their own thing once they get away from the TRACOM unlike VP and the helo world who think that because they did it one way in flight school, it HAS to be that way in perpetuity (which is incorrect, for the record).

Quick background on why there was a divergence... Prior to 3710T-ish, it stated you could use your JANAP or tail code when filing outside of the local area. Somewhere around version T or U, it changed saying you could only use your JANAP in the local area, otherwise you had to file VM or VV and your tailcode. I have no idea what CNAF 3710 says now because I'm lazy and it doesn't apply to me anymore.

What I've never figured out is why TRAWING 4 has a GOLF tail code, but all the other Wings have a letter that matches their numerical place in the alphabet. There's probably some legacy that relates to Beeville, TX that explains that. But whatevs.

 

[Jim123]

What I've never figured out is why TRAWING 4 has a GOLF tail code, but all the other Wings have a letter that matches their numerical place in the alphabet. There's probably some legacy that relates to Beeville, TX that explains that. But whatevs.

I just figured it was because half the flight students sound like the drive-thru kid on The Simpsons when they talk to ATC, the fourth letter of the phonetic alphabet is part of the callsign of one of the airlines, and said air line's pilots sound like anything but that on the radio.

 

[wlawr005]

It's "strongly recommended" to use modex. As a custom, around Oceana, we only use modex when we're VFR typically heading to Fentress or the boat.

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

We've been told that squadron CO's airplane always wear x00 side number but no one knows which should be for x and for what reason. Eventually decided that 100 is the CAG's bird, 200 and 300 for VFs, 400 and 500 for VAs etc skippers - we then considered only "all-Grumman" CVWs since the carriers took part in Northern Weddings had such wings.

 

[wlawr005]

100, 200, 300, 400 VFA
500 VAQ
600-609 VAW
610+ HSC
700 HSM

X00 is for CAG, X01 is squadron CO.

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

Thanks. But no relation to intl callsign, right? Frankly, the only crewmember of Bear to speak rudimentary English was radioman, except for Bear D, where there was "Cherry" (NFO with linguistical education who ran special receiver called "cherry" thus his nick was the same) who could speak freely, but reportedly no calls on 121,5 were answered by F-4 and F-14s which had intercepted those Bears...

 

[Gatordev]

I just figured it was because half the flight students sound like the drive-thru kid on The Simpsons when they talk to ATC, the fourth letter of the phonetic alphabet is part of the callsign of one of the airlines, and said air line's pilots sound like anything but that on the radio.

That may actually be it (the airline part, not the Simpons kid part). It has also been known to be an issue when a Reserve helo files with a tailcode outside of the local area and their flight plan gets dumped.

ARTCC guy: "Why did a Northwest Airlines flight file for 120 knots? That must be an bad strip." <delete>

 

[Jim123]

The Simpsons kid flight student radio voice thing is still true, in a general sense.

 

[Gatordev]

The Simpsons kid flight student radio voice thing is still true, in a general sense.

With that, I cannot argue. Only made extra special by repeating every. Single. Word in whatever mundane clearance was given.

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

Gents,

So which airplane before legacy Hornet was the hardest to "trap on the boat"? Capt Robert "Barney" Rubel once stated that it was probably F-8, given its mishap rate. Maybe due to its high landing speed in conjunction with relatively short decks of 27C carriers. Or, maybe again, the RA-5C Vigilante wore that stigma?

 

[Brett327]

Sounds like you answered your own question.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

Sounds like you answered your own question.

Which was the most difficult in your experience?

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

Sounds like you answered your own question.

AFAIU, A3Ds too showed very poor mishap record from the beginning but it was not due to the airplane's behaviour - a lot of cadre were former VP pilots, with no carrier experience. That is understandable. I'd rather want to know which airplane in itself was the most marginal even for seasoned carrier pilot. Of retired ones, of course. Capt Rubel stated that all of them before F/A-18A were more or less unforgiving and the really safe history of carrier landings begins from about 1983, when the legacy Hornets became mainstream. If it does mean that F-14 and A-6 also were "unforgiving", what then we can consider as the best and the worst airplane to land on a carrier between 1950 and 1983? Maybe it makes sense to search among Brits and French as well?