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PRK Pre-op Total for Getting Picked Up For SNA

SkysTheLimit

New Member
Hello all,

This is my first post on here. This is something that I've had lots of anxiety about, and I'm hoping to get some clarification about this. When I got my PRK (first procedure back in 2016, and a touch-up in 2017), my eyes ended up balancing out at 20/15 in my right eye and 20/20 in my left. After searching on the Navy Aeromedical Reference and Waiver Guide, I noticed they changed their rules about touch-ups. The Navy now, seemingly, considers the touch-up procedure a completely separate procedure, and the limit they had to touch up for will be added to your total pre-op score to consider disqualifications. Back then when I got it done, that wasn't the case. In other words, I got treated at first for a -8.00D, and a touch up for either -0.25 or -0.50D. In other words, at first glance, if this is the case, the Navy would average those two together, and I would be disqualified before ever getting the chance to fly when this wouldn't have been the case before, which is the WHOLE reason my ophthalmologist treated me this way. My doctor even talked to the former-TOPGUN pilot, who started the Navy refractive surgery program back in 2006, about my specific case, and the way I was treated is how the doctor recommended I get treated in order to give me the best chance. I REALLY hope someone has some insight on this as this is a sticky situation, and I don't want this to end up DQ'ing me. Thanks for any and all help!
 

exNavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
Hello all,

This is my first post on here. This is something that I've had lots of anxiety about, and I'm hoping to get some clarification about this. When I got my PRK (first procedure back in 2016, and a touch-up in 2017), my eyes ended up balancing out at 20/15 in my right eye and 20/20 in my left. After searching on the Navy Aeromedical Reference and Waiver Guide, I noticed they changed their rules about touch-ups. The Navy now, seemingly, considers the touch-up procedure a completely separate procedure, and the limit they had to touch up for will be added to your total pre-op score to consider disqualifications. Back then when I got it done, that wasn't the case. In other words, I got treated at first for a -8.00D, and a touch up for either -0.25 or -0.50D. In other words, at first glance, if this is the case, the Navy would average those two together, and I would be disqualified before ever getting the chance to fly when this wouldn't have been the case before, which is the WHOLE reason my ophthalmologist treated me this way. My doctor even talked to the former-TOPGUN pilot, who started the Navy refractive surgery program back in 2006, about my specific case, and the way I was treated is how the doctor recommended I get treated in order to give me the best chance. I REALLY hope someone has some insight on this as this is a sticky situation, and I don't want this to end up DQ'ing me. Thanks for any and all help!
To be clear you were not over -8.00 correct?

Have you talked to an OR to get a physical so N3M can review your info? the waiver guide you are referencing doesn't come into play until after N3M clears you to be an officer.

Unless that person who started the program back in 2006 is going to make the decision to bring you in or not, what he thinks is irrelevant.
 

SkysTheLimit

New Member
To be clear you were not over -8.00 correct?

Have you talked to an OR to get a physical so N3M can review your info? the waiver guide you are referencing doesn't come into play until after N3M clears you to be an officer.

Unless that person who started the program back in 2006 is going to make the decision to bring you in or not, what he thinks is irrelevant.
Yes sir. I was treated as a -8.00 at the first procedure. I got a second procedure (touch-up, enhancement, or however you want to call it) to fully correct me to 20/20. The reason for this is because my eyes stabilized at 20/25 after the first procedure (what’s the point of getting the procedure if you still have to wear glasses or contacts?), and my corneal thickness also allowed for a touch-up to get to 20/20.
I’m currently working with a Lieutenant (she’s specifically an OR), yet after asking her the exact same question on this thread, she wasn’t sure, so I got rather spooked and shocked by this. Therefore, here’s my post. She basically said “let’s submit all your stuff and see what they say”. Now granted, I’m still going to submit everything anyway regardless, but the fact that she just brushed by the side kind of gave me a “I could care less” attitude about it.
 

exNavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
Yes sir. I was treated as a -8.00 at the first procedure. I got a second procedure (touch-up, enhancement, or however you want to call it) to fully correct me to 20/20. The reason for this is because my eyes stabilized at 20/25 after the first procedure (what’s the point of getting the procedure if you still have to wear glasses or contacts?), and my corneal thickness also allowed for a touch-up to get to 20/20.
I’m currently working with a Lieutenant (she’s specifically an OR), yet after asking her the exact same question on this thread, she wasn’t sure, so I got rather spooked and shocked by this. Therefore, here’s my post. She basically said “let’s submit all your stuff and see what they say”. Now granted, I’m still going to submit everything anyway regardless, but the fact that she just brushed by the side kind of gave me a “I could care less” attitude about it.
I would take her attitude as more like she knows this is something she has no control over and the only way to find out is submit, at this point it seems as she is steering you on the right path.

If I thought she wasn't I would say so, as I have many times before.
 

SkysTheLimit

New Member
I would take her attitude as more like she knows this is something she has no control over and the only way to find out is submit, at this point it seems as she is steering you on the right path.

If I thought she wasn't I would say so, as I have many times before.
Thank you for the clarification.

Is it possible you might have some other info, gouge, etc. on the eyesight specifics as they pertain to my case? All help here is greatly appreciated!
 

skyline_pigeon

New Member
Darn, thank you anyway! I'll be going to MEPS rather soon, so I'm sure I'll either find out then or after I submit my full package.
Can you keep us updated on this, I too might need a touch up for my lasik and im worried now. Can you post the reg that states touch up scores are to be combined now?

Thanks, and good luck
 

SkysTheLimit

New Member
Can you keep us updated on this, I too might need a touch up for my lasik and im worried now. Can you post the reg that states touch up scores are to be combined now?

Thanks, and good luck
I sure can and will. On the other hand, I wouldn't want any information to sway you from getting your enhancement procedure (even in the unfortunate circumstance of it being disqualifying). At the end of the day, being able to see clearly (because the rain is gone) is the ultimate goal. However, I will definitely let you know about what I find out.

I don't think I'm allowed to copy and paste from their website. However, I'll walk you step by step on how to get there. Start by google searching Navy Aeromedical Reference and Waiver Guide. Click on the actual "med.navy.mil" link (it may ask you to "sign in" or whatever, but just cancel that, and it will take you right to it). Scroll down to "Waiver Guide Topics" and click on "Ophthalmology". Next, click on the "Corneal Refractive Surgery" sublink (12.15), and scroll to page 33 and read the second bullet from the top to see where I got my concerns from. I hope this helps.
 

exNavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
I sure can and will. On the other hand, I wouldn't want any information to sway you from getting your enhancement procedure (even in the unfortunate circumstance of it being disqualifying). At the end of the day, being able to see clearly (because the rain is gone) is the ultimate goal. However, I will definitely let you know about what I find out.

I don't think I'm allowed to copy and paste from their website. However, I'll walk you step by step on how to get there. Start by google searching Navy Aeromedical Reference and Waiver Guide. Click on the actual "med.navy.mil" link (it may ask you to "sign in" or whatever, but just cancel that, and it will take you right to it). Scroll down to "Waiver Guide Topics" and click on "Ophthalmology". Next, click on the "Corneal Refractive Surgery" sublink (12.15), and scroll to page 33 and read the second bullet from the top to see where I got my concerns from. I hope this helps.
You are referencing the guide that is used AFTER you are cleared by NRC medical which uses Navy Medical Manual.
 

SkysTheLimit

New Member
You are referencing the guide that is used AFTER you are cleared by NRC medical which uses Navy Medical Manual.
So, in other words, the waiver guide is only used if you don't quite meet a specific requirement in the NMM, and by the Navy Medical Manual, I assume you mean MANMED??? You might have answered this on another thread, but I haven't delved into the site enough to see where the answer might be.
 

SkysTheLimit

New Member
You are referencing the guide that is used AFTER you are cleared by NRC medical which uses Navy Medical Manual.
I just went and looked at MANMED, and under Article 15-84(3b14), which is the Disqualifying Conditions For all Aviation Duty article, it states that "For any case involving refractive surgery or any manipulation to correct vision, see the ARWG, Ophthalmology section, for specific standards and waiver applicability". Therefore, that guide is applicable to this and my specific case considering it states in the ARWG that both procedures will be averaged together to determine disqualifications. The NRC might use MANMED, but it states in MANMED that the ARWG is applicable in my specific case. The only thing to do is submit and see what happens, honestly.
 

exNavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
I just went and looked at MANMED, and under Article 15-84(3b14), which is the Disqualifying Conditions For all Aviation Duty article, it states that "For any case involving refractive surgery or any manipulation to correct vision, see the ARWG, Ophthalmology section, for specific standards and waiver applicability". Therefore, that guide is applicable to this and my specific case considering it states in the ARWG that both procedures will be averaged together to determine disqualifications. The NRC might use MANMED, but it states in MANMED that the ARWG is applicable in my specific case. The only thing to do is submit and see what happens, honestly.
NRC med will look at their manual, if you meet requirements you are good, if you don't then you will be DQ, they will put something in there that says "N3M defers to NAMI for aviation suitability" however what has been said by the docs before is with the number of applicants if a person doesn't meet NRC med requirements why bother to waiver. There have been people to get around that by going and getting physicals directly from NAMI.

Ultimately you are correct, submit and see what happens.
 
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