Practical shooting question

[nittany03]

As one who is relatively new to the world of shooting high powered rifles, I thought I'd pose this dilemma to the more experienced out there who can tell me if or how I'm full of it. Recently acquired an Mosin-Nagant 1891/30 (as I crowed about here earlier). It's not sporterized or anything so no scope, just the standard Soviet issue iron sights.

Shoots great at 50 yards and under, but as soon as I take it out to the 100 yard range it seems worse than I would expect (4-6 inch groups at least). The rifle hasn't been counterbored as some Mosins are. Muzzle wear seems to be OK, at least from the sense that a bullet won't disappear up to the neck in it. The only real formal firearms instruction I've recieved has been pistol shooting, and to focus on the front sight when making my sight picture. But if I do that with iron sights and an NRA 100yd target, the target disappears when I focus on the front sight. Kind of hard to aim that way.

So I suppose my question is if I can get good groups at 50 yards and not at 100 yards, am I jacked up, is the rifle jacked up, or am I just expecting too much out of a non-scoped weapon?

 

[Flugelman]

But if I do that with iron sights and an NRA 100yd target, the target disappears when I focus on the front sight. Kind of hard to aim that way.

So I suppose my question is if I can get good groups at 50 yards and not at 100 yards, am I jacked up, is the rifle jacked up, or am I just expecting too much out of a non-scoped weapon?

I would try a 6 o'clock hold with no white visible between the bull and top of the front post. The bull should appear as just a blur. If you're shooting off a rest this should be possible. I'm a retired pistol shooter from the days when scopes were not allowed in Bullseye competition and the 6 o'clock hold worked for me.

Choice of ammunition makes a big difference also. I've had loads for my 7-08 that were MOA at 100 yards but wouldn't print for beans out at 300 yards. If you reload try different combinations of powder, primer, bullet, and seating depth. I usually worked up at least 10 combinations for each new rifle.



Other's mileage may vary...

 

[RAS]

Ditto. 6 o'clock hold makes a much better defined POA. Adjust the sights to bring the impact up to the bull.

 

[insanebikerboy]

Trigger control is much more important for longer distances with a rifle as well. What you may have unconsciously gotten away with at 50 will start to magnify at 100 yards. Sight alignment and trigger control are your two first steps to sub 1" MOA. Nice, easy squeeze, the hammer falling should literally be a surprise to you (that means don't anticipate the shot, you'll start pushing or pulling shots).

What kind of bullets are you using? That too can make a big difference. My favorites are Federal Gold Match (in any caliber). There's a reason handloaders try to duplicate those factory loads in their personal loads. Many records are held with Federal factory loads.

As already mentioned, with iron sights, 6 o'clock hold is best when using any iron sights.

Finally, breathing is also important too. Time your trigger squeeze for between breaths, otherwise your sights will be rising or falling as you shoot (if you're really tied into your rifle).

 

[gaijin6423]

What position are you shooting from? If you're shooting from the standing, it's much more difficult to maintain sight alignment and picture while still properly controlling your breathing and trigger pull. Try a more supported position, like sitting or prone, or even use the bench rest to dial in your sights before moving on to different shooting positions. If you do shoot from the various positions, remember that the idea is to use your skeletal structure to support both you and the weapon, so that your muscles are as relaxed as possible. This allows you to stay in the position longer, in a more relaxed manner, which lets you focus more on the other fundamentals.

 

[A4sForever]

....Shoots great at 50 yards and under, but as soon as I take it out to the 100 yard range it seems worse ....

Wish I could assist you .... but it's kinda tough over the 'net ....

Are you shooting over your shoulder with a mirror @ 100 yards?? Are you cross-eyed, perhaps?? Wall-eyed??

You might try getting a longer barrel ....

 

[insanebikerboy]

You might try getting a longer barrel ....

Yeah, I hear those 100 yard barrels make shooting a breeze

 

[nittany03]

Well during my latest trip to the range I shot at an NRA 50 yard target at 50 yds instead of a 100yd target, and judging by where the bullets fell, I think I was just misoverestimating (to paraphrase Mr Bush) the capabilities of a 60-year-old Rooskie warhorse in my earlier post. I was getting pretty much the same groupings scorewise; 6-ring and in, from the bench rest position. Sub-MOA it ain't.

Made sure to get back to basics; proper trigger squeeze, etc. What I was curious about before was whether there was another technique for sight picture at long range (like the guys who say to aim with both eyes open for pistols) due to the bull being farther away.

 

[A4sForever]

....Made sure to get back to basics; proper trigger squeeze, etc. .....

*Sigh* .... I think I love you ....

 

[insanebikerboy]

What I was curious about before was whether there was another technique for sight picture at long range (like the guys who say to aim with both eyes open for pistols) due to the bull being farther away.

That's something I was skeptical about when I first started shooting pistol competitively, but it's one of the better things I learned. It may feel weird, but just put a piece of tape over your non-shooting glass. Your eyes will thank you for the reduced stress, so you'll be able to see the sights so much better.

 

[Flugelman]

Look at any of the top Olympic shooters and the eyewear they use. Almost all will have something covering the non-dominant eye. As I started needing glasses I got some of the off the shelf reading glasses that allowed me to focus on the front sight and spray painted the left lens a dull black. Kinda a PITA to change back and forth during a match but that is what the preparation period is for anyway. You can also buy the flip-up covers at places like Midway.

 

[A4sForever]

Look at any of the top Olympic shooters and the eyewear ..... most all will have something covering the non-dominant eye. ....You can also buy the flip-up covers at places like Midway.

What you suggest is really a finesse measure ..... and he's not going to shoot Olympic with a burned out Rooskie P.O.S. WW2 rifle .... Sorry .... that's just the way it is ....

But sure .... and you can also "build/make" the same thing for yourself to test the "addition" to your shooting kit with a pair of "flip-up's" from the NEX and strap them on to a pair of Bosch & Lomb shooting glasses .... or maybe issue shades ... I did both and put masking tape on the "covered" eye .... you may/may not kick out the unnecessary/offending lens .... remember, these are only "shooting" glasses ... you're NOT going to wear them to a party to pick up chicks .... because, if you do .... you will lose badly and not pick up chicks.

... so buy 'em from Midway ... ??? No problem-O ... spend some $$$$ if you want --- but ingenuity and initiative???? ... that's what I'm talkin' about ... be creative ... be somebody.

And for the record ... in case you think I'm stupid (and many do -- with good reason, in some cases) .... I shot (successfully) on the USNR Rifle/Pistol Team in the '80's .... with/without covered eyes.....

 

[insanebikerboy]

^^^^^ Agree totally. Unless the OP is planning on shooting in Cup matches or anything like that, using the low tech $1.00 a roll masking tape will do the exact same as the super expensive glasses from Hammerli.