It's true--in one of the shots she was actually sitting in the cockpit before the CO pulled her out and took over. I think the original question was more about that action than selective scheduling. But then again this:
Is a very true statement.
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Pitching Deck Video
- Thread starter yak52driver
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It's true--in one of the shots she was actually sitting in the cockpit before the CO pulled her out and took over. I think the original question was more about that action than selective scheduling. But then again this:
Is a very true statement.
For some reason, both links in the OP are midnight ... dark ... no workie-for-me. Sooooo ... NOT a good time to fly...... the end of cruise and on the way home. This is probably where A4's jumps in and tells me I'm a wimpI'll take it from him
But, naaaaaaaah ... night flyin' gives me the heebie-jeebies. Even though probably 60% of my logbook(s) are 'midnight'. Of course, that ol' Commander's Moon always turns night into day ... and that's a good thing, especially out over the Pacific, whether flyin' for UNCLE or 'da Man.
On further reflection: the ONLY thing that makes 'sense' at night during this particular phase of cruise (unless you're transiting BEAR COUNTRY) is laughin' & scratchin' w/ your Amigos in the Dirty Shirt Mess and then repairing to some not-really-so-secret stateroom with a stack of sandwiches, wherein 4-5 of you gather 'round to make certain those 'dead soldiers' are REALLY DEAD. Night is also a particularly good time to 'bury' them at sea prior to clearing US Customs in HNL/Pearl ... sometimes the 'tinkle, tinkle, tinkle' went on all night along the catwalk just prior to reaching Pearl.
Oh, yeah ... sleeping, too. That makes sense. Remember the LSO Creed: eat, sleep, wave, & fly ....... eat, sleep, wave, fly ........ eat ..... ** sleeelellep .... ******:sleep_125
Makes me tired just typing it ...
candidate2010
New Member
That was intense! Good post.
Concur. Saw an alert crew of 0-3's pulled and a group of 0-4's sent in when the call came from TAO that the alert 15 Prowler was going to launch to support an adhoc strike the first night of ODS. I was not one of the alert crew in either case but IMO it was poor leadership on the Skippers part. You put a crew together and you have the Mission Commander designated and trusted to be up to task so, you don't pull them.
Same Skipper pulled my pilot and replaced him with an 0-4 for a deep strike in ODS, in fact, the deepest strike during that dust-up by gulf side carrier based jets was our section of Prowlers escorting Tornado's and Buccaneers on that strike. My crew trusted our pilot and would have preferred he go , if you can't trust him to fly the jet and do the mission he shouldn't fly any of them.
That Skipper was a nice guy and a great stick but really undermined the crew integrity and confidence of some good folks on that cruise.
I guess I just don't understand this "every qualified pilot is the same" mentality that some folks on here are espousing. You can draw an analogy to sports if you'd like: When you're team is comfortably ahead, you can afford to put in your second or third string guys, but when the chips are down, or the game is tied, the clock is running down, and you've got only one shot, you put in your superstar players to get the job done. Now, who those superstar players are is going to vary squadron to squadron, and it's not always going to be the front office or DHs.
Selective scheduling is a part of writing every flight schedule or weekly - it's called common sense (or ORM). You don't set guys up for failure by putting them in situations where they're wildly in over their heads just for the sake of "toughening" them up - that's a stupid and dangerous way of training people. Maybe it didn't happen as much back in the day (or maybe you old timers just didn't realize it), but as some have pointed out, our mishap rate today is a fraction of what it was 40 years ago, so if that's the price for a couple bruised egos, I think we can all live with that.
Brett
Perhaps my tale is not a perfect allegory for the pitching deck scenario. In both the cases I mentioned neither was what I would consider cases where the skills, or lack of, in the pilot or crew were an issue but more a case of confidence in the skipper for whatever reason. By his making those changes he then reinforced his lack of confidence and undermined squadron/crew integrity IMO.
In fact, in the second case I believe that the pilot may have been chosen to make him eligible for one the 17 NCM's with V's that CAG had mandated as a maximum for the squadron to receive in the conflict. (another story altogether)
It's fair to say we basically had 3 categories of 'guys': newbies, the tip of the spear, and everyone else ... the pecking order was determined by several things, the most obvious being tenure, past history, the CO/XO/OPsO's opinion of someone.
Newbies got 'handled differently' until they had @ 15-25 traps under their belt (an individual, unscientific, and very subjective ruler was used -- traps and the ability to safely & consistently recover aboard USS BOAT being the single most important criteria) ...
The 'tip of the spear' usually ... I said 'usually' ... got the shittiest, deepest, darkest, sometimes loneliest missions ... whether it be attack or tanking and as always it could be modified depending upon crew and aircraft availability ... guys so defacto 'categorized' as 'go-to-guys' were not necessarily the 'most senior' ... they were just a proven, known quantity ... they were 100% dependable when it came to 'getting the job done'. They were in most cases division or most certainly section lead qualified for the 'day stuff'.
Everyone else got everything else ... sometimes relatively 'easy' and/or 'routine' (whatever that means in carrier Aviation) and sometimes as shit-in-the-face 'downtown' as 'downtown' could ever get ...
Initially the 'night team' was smaller than the total # of available pilots/BNs and was comprised of 'experience' ... but as the cruise progressed, the 'team' rapidly (and I mean rapidly) incorporated 100% of all flyable warm bodies ... although the 'last tanker airborne' was consistently manned by the same 5-6 crews. Go figure ... :icon_smil
Everyone took their turn @ ALERT and I can remember a couple of occasions when the CO/XO/OPS would ensure THEY got scheduled when the ETA of IVAN-BEAR was anticipated ... it might 'suck', but RHIP's. I cannot remember any 'heavy' TAKING someone else's bird because 'they could' ... that would have dumped morale in the shit-can, for sure.
There was always 'the exception' to these guidelines as nothing in Naval Aviation is hard & fast (well ... some things are ... ), but that's pretty much how it worked in a 'perfect'sleep_125) squadron in a not-so-perfect world ...
I'm sure there's more ... in fact, I know there is as I just thought of 'em. Later ...
Newbies got 'handled differently' until they had @ 15-25 traps under their belt (an individual, unscientific, and very subjective ruler was used -- traps and the ability to safely & consistently recover aboard USS BOAT being the single most important criteria) ...
The 'tip of the spear' usually ... I said 'usually' ... got the shittiest, deepest, darkest, sometimes loneliest missions ... whether it be attack or tanking and as always it could be modified depending upon crew and aircraft availability ... guys so defacto 'categorized' as 'go-to-guys' were not necessarily the 'most senior' ... they were just a proven, known quantity ... they were 100% dependable when it came to 'getting the job done'. They were in most cases division or most certainly section lead qualified for the 'day stuff'.
Everyone else got everything else ... sometimes relatively 'easy' and/or 'routine' (whatever that means in carrier Aviation) and sometimes as shit-in-the-face 'downtown' as 'downtown' could ever get ...
Initially the 'night team' was smaller than the total # of available pilots/BNs and was comprised of 'experience' ... but as the cruise progressed, the 'team' rapidly (and I mean rapidly) incorporated 100% of all flyable warm bodies ... although the 'last tanker airborne' was consistently manned by the same 5-6 crews. Go figure ... :icon_smil
Everyone took their turn @ ALERT and I can remember a couple of occasions when the CO/XO/OPS would ensure THEY got scheduled when the ETA of IVAN-BEAR was anticipated ... it might 'suck', but RHIP's. I cannot remember any 'heavy' TAKING someone else's bird because 'they could' ... that would have dumped morale in the shit-can, for sure.
There was always 'the exception' to these guidelines as nothing in Naval Aviation is hard & fast (well ... some things are ... ), but that's pretty much how it worked in a 'perfect'
sleep_125) squadron in a not-so-perfect world ... I'm sure there's more ... in fact, I know there is as I just thought of 'em. Later ...
I also believe that said skipper bought my middie friends and I several rounds of drinks at the Lemoore O-club shortly after this series was filmed (summer '06 timeframe).
That's what I thought, and like A-4s said, the last night tanker (at least in the A-6 community) was always a hand selected guy - usually at least a second cruise guy with a solid boarding rate. There were many times when you you were asked (or offered) to give gas below your personal fuel ladder. Then you just hoped all worked as advertised and you got aboard first pass.
Pugs, I made the mistake of being able to write well and got drafted to write all of TR's awards after Desert Storm. The flag staff liked TR's submissions so well that I found myself editing all the award citations for the flag staff / Admiral. CAG Fallon submitted way more NCMs w/Vs than 17 per squadron. He might have started with that quota, but it was quickly disregarded. He even submitted ground guys for NCMs w/Vs. Remember the V doesn't mean valor. It is the "combat distinguishing device" meaning the medal was earned during or in support of combat operations. We even had a select few ship's company O-4s and O-5s get them. In fact, it was a big bone of contention because some COs were submitting every award with the V (legal under the awards manual) but our Admiral was balking at this. Meanwhile another BG commander was giving Vs to all. Politics at its best.....
Exactly.
I also believe that said skipper bought my middie friends and I several rounds of drinks at the Lemoore O-club shortly after this series was filmed (summer '06 timeframe).
I was on the Nimitz when they were filming. Without going into details, this guy's the reason I switched over to the USMC. Should tell you what I think about his character.
no details huh? playing devils advocate, heard from many 41 guys that he was a stand up guy.
^ +1. Heard the same from guys who's opinions I value quite a bit. What was your level of interaction with the man?
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