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Pinochet in the news...one last time

What's that song from the Wizard of Oz???? Right..."Ding dong the witch is dead..."

The man is dead...and I think that is probably best all the way around.
 
scoober78 said:
What's that song from the Wizard of Oz???? Right..."Ding dong the witch is dead..."

The man is dead...and I think that is probably best all the way around.
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For better or worse, he also did the US and UK a lot of important favors over the years. Many fvcked up things happened under the guise of Cold War thinking, but at the time, there weren't many other options. So, before we all go throwing stones and making Pinochet out to be a little Hitler, let's not forget that he was OUR little Hitler. ;)

Brett
 
So, before we all go throwing stones and making Pinochet out to be a little Hitler
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Well that's a bit much Brett.:D I'm a neo-realist (in the IR sense), you don't have to explain the neccessity...but by this logic why aren't you standing up for Saddam?;) I don't condemn our relationship with him during the cold war (I'm not that idealistic anymore)...but when you get in bed with someone like that...don't forget to wash afterwards.
 
Yeah, lots of fields use the term. There is a cinematic neo-realism (Cesare Zavattinni, Frederico Fellinni), neo-realist philosophy (Bertrand Russell, Alfred North Whitehead) and I've heard the term used in relationship to fine art in general, although I'm not entirely sure what that means...:D
 
scoober78 said:
Yeah, lots of fields use the term. There is a cinematic neo-realism (Cesare Zavattinni, Frederico Fellinni), neo-realist philosophy (Bertrand Russell, Alfred North Whitehead) and I've heard the term used in relationship to fine art in general, although I'm not entirely sure what that means...:D
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Well I meant in the IR context; in other realms of political science or economics maybe. Art doesn't count... :)
 
Some of you boys should read up on your history instead of accepting at face value what the media has to say .... you know ... about history. :)

Pinochet??? Read up on the Chilean 1973 Revolution and what brought it about before you condemn him out of hand and use as your source(s) the MSM. There's been plenty of strongmen and assholes throughout history ... and recent history brings many to mind.

A small sampling:

Nguyen Cao Ky
Ferdinand Marcos
Lee Kuan Yew
 Anastasio Somoza Debayle
Ngo Dinh Diem
Mohammad Reza Pahlavi
Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq
Pervez Musharraf
Chiang Kai-shek
Fulgencio Batista

Tough guys? Bad guys? Assholes? Sure ... but many times they were the right men for the time.

And then again, they were OUR assholes ... and the world was a "safer" place , as a result. :)


 
Are we forgetting slobodan milosevic? That @$$-clown scumbag got off scott free. He deserved a lot more than death.:icon_rage
 
Was stationed in Santiago for 6 weeks and must say that Pinochet was suprisingly to me,not seen as a bad ass by the majority of the people. What he did wasn't right, they agree to that, but it lead Chili to what it is today. Economical Chili is very strong and independent in comparison to it's surrounding countries. Also the Capitol Santiago is very safe and clean. It has the subwaysystem as a copy of Paris....
 
nkawtg said:
Was stationed in Santiago for 6 weeks and must say that Pinochet was suprisingly to me,not seen as a bad ass by the majority of the people. What he did wasn't right, they agree to that, but it lead Chili to what it is today. Economical Chili is very strong and independent in comparison to it's surrounding countries. Also the Capitol Santiago is very safe and clean. It has the subwaysystem as a copy of Paris....
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I know it was a simple misspelling but for some reason "economical Chili" made me laugh pretty hard.:D


(that's "chile")
 
You're right, it makes me laugh as well....
:p

It was a misspelling but not in the Dutch language.
In Dutch Chile is spelled as Chili, my bad!
 
Some of you boys should read up on your history instead of accepting at face value what the media has to say .... you know ... about history. :)

Pinochet??? Read up on the Chilean 1973 Revolution and what brought it about before you condemn him out of hand and use as your source(s) the MSM. There's been plenty of strongmen and assholes throughout history ... and recent history brings many to mind.
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Yahoo media is not my sole source for anything...and would never say that the man didn't accomplish anything. I wouldn't even say that he didn't accomplish any good. His privatization of the Chilean economy and defense of markets against socialization likely left Chile in a much better position than it would have been in without him. I also have no particular love for Salvador Allende as so many on college campuses these days seem to.

What I will say is that he certainly belongs in the "list of assholes" you put up there. Lets not confuse ends and means. Pinochet certainly acheived some laudable ends...his means however are worthy of criticism. To say otherwise, IMHO pust cashmere on a camel.

I'm glad you brought that up. :D I'd like you to define, in specific terms, what the exact nature of our pre-1990 relationship was with him.
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Well, to be perfectly honest, I don't know the entire extent of our relationship with him. What I do know is that we "supported" him at least to the extent that we supplied him with arms and funds in support of his efforts in the Iran/Iraq war. For me to say anymore would be speculation on my part.

The bottom line here is, that since we live in a messy, dangerous world, we are forced to support and be supported by people for practical reasons that we may not normally for ethical reasons. I have no problem with this. What I do have a problem with is calling that relationship anything other than what it is...a relationship of opportunity...and the people we have them with anything other than what they are.
 
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