PEP tour in Germany—Worth a shot, or just a pipe dream?

[AllYourBass]

Be careful. Don't assume what's here on AW is anonymous.

Hah, yeah, after I said that I realized that it would probably take all of about 5 minutes to determine who I am. Solid advice.

Regardless, I do like to ask these types of questions here because it's an easy way to blast out an inquiry to a ton of people with a wide range of experience. The PEP stuff isn't necessarily a topic I'd feel uncomfortable talking about with my IP while we're doing pattern work, but I definitely wouldn't put anything up here I'd be afraid of OPS/front office tracing back to me.

 

[MIDNJAC]

I think it is silly that there is such a fear of asking the O-4 and above crowd about career options. I'm sure there have unfortunately been cases where such discussions have been used against a guy during fitrep season, but it shouldn't be that way, and I know it never was in my JO squadron. We shouldn't be sending asshats to exchange tours (not that we are), nor should going to one cast a guy into unrecoverable oblivion. If that is what big navy has decided these jobs are for, there is something wrong with the system. If we value aviation talent, in my opinion a really great way to build that is to have guys experience another TMS, and even more importantly, get exposed to how the other half lives, whether that be USAF or NATO. Just seems silly to me that some non flying post DH "joint" tour in DC is somehow "on track" while flying and actually tactically integrating with the same folks as a LT is not.

 

[wink]

EUCOM in Stuttgart seemed like a pretty good gig, depending on the billet. When I was at NAVEUR did some stuff with EUCOM. A VS LT NFO from my former fleet squadron was an OPS guy in EUCOM and seemed to like it a lot. That was back in the mid 90s though, so career considerations were not so great then.

 

[Brett327]

I think it is silly that there is such a fear of asking the O-4 and above crowd about career options. I'm sure there have unfortunately been cases where such discussions have been used against a guy during fitrep season, but it shouldn't be that way, and I know it never was in my JO squadron. We shouldn't be sending asshats to exchange tours (not that we are), nor should going to one cast a guy into unrecoverable oblivion. If that is what big navy has decided these jobs are for, there is something wrong with the system. If we value aviation talent, in my opinion a really great way to build that is to have guys experience another TMS, and even more importantly, get exposed to how the other half lives, whether that be USAF or NATO. Just seems silly to me that some non flying post DH "joint" tour in DC is somehow "on track" while flying and actually tactically integrating with the same folks as a LT is not.

I can't speak to how the average HSM front office would react, but I would never impugn or pigeon-hole a JO for asking questions and exploring all of their options. Committing to a particular course of action or set of orders is another matter, but I would hope that most front offices would have a similar philosophy. Opening that line of communication also lets me weigh in with my own thoughts and experience to help the member make informed career choices.

That said, I know that some folks feel differently, so tread lightly until you've properly assessed your FO.

 

[HokiePilot]

It never hurts to play your cards close to your vest. For the first year in the squadron no one will ask what you plan on doing after. Focus on making HAC. Once you have made HAC your reputation will increase considerably. A few months after that is a good time to broach the subject with your front office. Any earlier than that won't help. You are just too far out.

 

[Farva01]

EUCOM in Stuttgart seemed like a pretty good gig, depending on the billet. When I was at NAVEUR did some stuff with EUCOM. A VS LT NFO from my former fleet squadron was an OPS guy in EUCOM and seemed to like it a lot. That was back in the mid 90s though, so career considerations were not so great then.

EUCOM and AFRICOM are the only way to go to Europe and get the joint stamp now.

 

[PEPfromage]

I recommend you make yourself as knowledgeable and qualified as possible before going down the bronze path. Establish yourself as a highly ranked MP at that 1/2 - 2/3 through your tour FITREP, and then start thinking about having the go-native conversation. I say that because your career ambitions might very well change in that first 18-24 months as you transition from savvy copilot to being in charge, and if there aren't enough hours to go around to get everyone qualified in all mission areas, you the future oktoberfester might find yourself brat in hand, left out on a qualification or valuable training detachment. Next thing you know, you're not fully qualified, pigeon-holed out of all the good shore tours, and talking to some job placement vulture who is salivating at the idea of you losing what remaining hair and dignity you have in a cubicle at Deloitte.

It seemed over the top at the time, but I was asked by a peer to say out loud that I understood that an off-track job would almost invariably be a career killer. 5 years later, I can tell you that a handful of people I knew who said they understood the risks involved in going for something off-track were pretty sour when that O4 list came out a few months ago and they we were not on it. I guess it is one thing to say you want to shoot yourself in the foot, and another when you actually see that it has happened.

Keep your powder dry for a while on this one mon frere. Not to be greedy, but to allow yourself to get the full experience of taking some spaz out for night DLQs or brownout landings before you make the decision to stay or go. Without debating the merits of it, that is essentially what you're deciding with one of these.