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Path to Experimental Test Pilot?

bmather9

Member
I'm almost positive that now you are winged/rated by a military service, you actually meet the requirements for flying AF again. I stumbled on that bit of information while applying for the ETP but you should only need a Class II after you've completed training. I think they added that disclaimer in there to account for anyone that is currently flying that wouldn't meet the new requirements after they were implemented. Don't know that I'd consider going back after the hell that it took to get away, but just might be another option to explore.

Unfortunately, I don't believe this is true. It seems that a few years ago that the USAF ditched the fixed-wing qual course and simultaneously began regarding anyone transferring into the USAF as 'untrained' unless you are going into the same weapon system/aircraft. See this thread: http://www.flyingsquadron.com/forums/topic/7657-color-blindnessdeficiency/?page=3#comment-403206

I guess it could be an option to attempt to transfer back into the USAF as an H-60 pilot, but I'm not sure if that would be smart? I guess if it's possible I should consider it, but USAF TPS doesn't have a rotary wing course so I'm not sure how competitive I could be? I guess some USAF guys do end up going to Navy TPS from rumors I've heard?
 
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bmather9

Member
For a job so specific and with so few people, becoming a test pilot is often times as much luck as it is skill. Army O grades have a very narrow window to get there, generally 2 attempts to apply. Timing, deployments, PCSs, PME, family, and anything else you can think of can factor in to derail your plans. If you don't make it your top priority you'll probably never get there.

Stupid army sayings apply here: You miss all the shots you don't take. Make them tell you no. Apply early, apply often.

What makes you think it's not my top priority? I think it's pretty clear that it takes a certain amount of the right experience to get into TPS, and that's what I've been trying to do all along. I studied engineering for 6 years and I started out with a solid plan in the USAF and that got wrecked. So in the meantime I scrambled to get more experimental test experience as an FTE, while simultaneously finding my way through a medical maze to transfer services to fly. I succeeded and worked hard in training, graduated as DG, and swung a sweet deal to work as a civilian FTE and fly with the Guard. Now I am where I am, and I'm looking to make plans to give up me and my wife's civilian engineering jobs for a chance at TPS. No doubt my life is not the same as when I was a single guy chasing the dream, but my goals are still essentially the same. Some would call me crazy for even considering this.

So before I make another leap, I want to understand my chances, and make sure I put myself in a position that can make it happen. And I don't think it would be smart to go into a job that I would hate with the hopes of getting to TPS, because as you've said, the window is quite narrow. I'm certainly willing to open that window by reverting to Warrant, but that's not in the cards right at this moment; maybe a couple of years down the road. What I learned from my USAF debacle, is that I always need a backup plan, hence why I'm looking into so many options to accomplish this. Even if none work out, there's still a possibility to get into experimental test as a civilian pilot. And if the laws of physics change and aircraft no longer are capable of flight, then I'll just start over figuring out how to make them fly again.

I'll apply early and often, as soon as someone will accept my application. I might even put one together and just send it in although I'm in the National Guard. It will probably land in the trash, but whatever.
 

bmather9

Member
I'm back with a few more questions. Basically I'm looking at my options for getting onto active duty since that would at least allow me to continue my flying career and potentially give me a shot at TPS.

I hear a lot about age limits for SNA's but as a current H-60 pilot I'm hoping they wouldn't apply to me as I'm currently 30 and beyond the limit. Any idea how things would work if I do happen to get a spot in the active Navy? Would I go directly to H-60's, or would I go back and start over at primary? Or maybe something in-between?

I haven't found a good POC to look into a transfer to active Marines; any ideas here?

Do the Navy/Marines restrict TPS applicants to a small window of year groups like the Army O-grades? I'm hoping that my extra time as an O-2 would help by extending my window a bit if that route ends up being the way I go.

If I stay Army, my only shot seems to be reverting to Warrant Officer, because of the year group window. It also seems like my best chance overall. Any info/advice on how to apply to get a spot on active as a WO? Are there any positions that exist that might help set me up for a TPS application? Maybe something in acquisitions?

I have seem some Operational Test work is possible with the Arizona Air Guard; although I doubt they send anyone to TPS, and the USAF is pretty much ruled out because of my color vision, I'm just curious if there are any leads there for me.

Thanks again for any help!
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
What's up with your color vision? That may stop you in your tracks before all the admin nightmare you're facing.
 

bmather9

Member
What's up with your color vision? That may stop you in your tracks before all the admin nightmare you're facing.

Here's the thread that best explains my color vision ordeal: https://www.airwarriors.com/communi...nter-service-transfer-for-color-vision.34429/

In short, I was all set up to be a USAF pilot, but after PCSing to UPT I got DQ'd for color vision when the USAF was in the process of changing color vision tests. I tried fighting it, but the USAF refused to budge, so I ended up transferring to the Army National Guard to fly. Navy, Marines, Army, Coast Guard all use the same standard which I pass, but the USAF is all on it's own.

So color vision won't be a problem (unless something has changed).
 

biskit

New Member
What state are you in?

Sounds like you're getting motivated!

There is a DOD instruction for the various branch transfer procedures. It changes periodically. First step for you is to find it and see if you qualify. All the O-grade transfer stuff is probably a longshot for TPS - if you transfer you will burn lots of time doing officer PME stuff and aviator stuff. When somebody looks at you for TPS vs another aviator who hasn't transferred, the other guy will have more flight time and more branch-specific experience than you. Based on what I know, to get to TPS in your case I would not even pursue a branch transfer.

Active duty warrant officer is your best shot by a wide margin. Your options are to either go warrant in the NG and then go active duty, or go active duty O-grade and then resign into a warrant officer. Which way is more feasible will change with the winds. Getting onto active duty is difficult now with the drawdown - being an O-grade makes it harder because you have to fit into a career timeline. In the last couple years the only warrants I know who have gotten from the guard/reserve onto active duty have done it via 160th. I have not seen an O-grade make it from guard/reserve onto active duty in a long time. The Army is getting rid of two CABs, so coming onto active duty as an aviator is difficult no matter your rank. As an untracked blackhawk guy you're a readily available commodity.

No matter what, you will not get a 100% sure path either route to active duty warrant officer. It will be up to you to take a leap of faith on the first step knowing full well that the second step may not be possible. Even if it you make it to be an active duty warrant then you're at step 0 for getting to TPS.

Assuming you make it to active duty warrant officer(or O-grade), no specific assignment will help you more than others(apart from having to meet KD time requirements as an O-grade). Variety of assignments is desirable and being an IP or MP is highly desirable. Your FTE experience will be a huge plus if you ever get to apply in the Army.


I'm back with a few more questions. Basically I'm looking at my options for getting onto active duty since that would at least allow me to continue my flying career and potentially give me a shot at TPS.

.........

If I stay Army, my only shot seems to be reverting to Warrant Officer, because of the year group window. It also seems like my best chance overall. Any info/advice on how to apply to get a spot on active as a WO? Are there any positions that exist that might help set me up for a TPS application? Maybe something in acquisitions?

I have seem some Operational Test work is possible with the Arizona Air Guard; .......
 
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