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P-3 frs

dimlight85

bears, beets, battlestar galactica.
I just recently selected P-3's and other than the very limited information on VP-30's website, I can't seem to find any information on the the actual timeline and training schedule. Can anyone on here give some insight into what can be expected once I check in at VP-30?

I have heard that the FRS takes about 9 months to complete and you actually get winged about halfway through. Does anyone have a more detailed timeline of ground schools, sims and flights?
 

CommodoreMid

Whateva! I do what I want!
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I'm there now. For time frame reference, I started the syllabus on 3NOV, I will wing 23APR, and I'll be completely done some time in June.

Here's a rough outline of what you'll do. If I get motivated I might get more in depth later and go in depth which each phase, but A) I've only completed the UMFO stuff so far and B) I'm lazy, so we;ll see.

Your first phase is the Undergraduate Maritime Flight Officer syllabus aka the fundamental nav phase. Apparently it used to be you got winged after this part, but I guess they changed it because they realized it was kinda stupid to wing students after 6 weeks of the RAG and no real knowledge of the plane. During this phase you will be taught by LSI instructors- they're three retired NFOs. No active duty instructors. During this time you'll learn some basic NATOPS knowledges (ie if the APU catches fire on the ground, it might be a good idea to get out of the plane), but the meat of what you'll be covering is off-line navigation and basic comms. You'll learn how to prep your charts for flights. The main systems you'll learn are the inertials and the GPS and how to navigate off those. Everything culminates in this phase with three sims, called navigation trainers, where you practice your skills with the LSI instructors and they try to make your head explode with ridiculous diverts. Your first sim you're navigating from Jacksonville up to Pax River, the second you're in Japan, and the third you're in CENTCOM.

After that you move to the intermediate phase. Here you'll learn about the plane's computer and how it ties in the nav systems you learned in the UMFO phase. I've just started this stuff so it's still a bit of a mystery for me as well. You're also learning more NATOPS knowledges and going into more depth with systems. During this time you'll have what are called device sessions where you go on the aircraft to get into the specifics of certain systems. Occasionally you and some people in your class will meet in small groups with an instructor for discussions of things you've learned in class, device sessions, and on your own. You also have three more sims where you integrate computer with your navigation.

Then you move into the nav phase. Here you're basically prepping for getting onto the aircraft. You do three flights and then you wing.

After winging you move into the tactical to phase to learn about actual P-3 missions. They stick you with a crew of instructors and other students and you'll do events in a tactical trainer and eventually three tactical training flights. Finally you have your NATOPS check and you're done with VP-30.

That's basically the gist of the syllabus. After what I'm doing now I don't really have any details since I haven't gone through it, so other people who've BTDT feel free to add on.
 

dimlight85

bears, beets, battlestar galactica.
Thanks for the reply. I really had trouble finding any current info on the training schedule even in big picture terms. 5-6 months to wing still isn't bad. According to this though, you really only have 3 flights in the actual plane before getting winged? The word here has been that the events are kind of spread out as well due to lack of resources i.e. there aren't quite as many actual simulators as the wonderful Fidelity run T-6 sims we have here. In turn I'm guessing that translates into not having a sim hop (or two) everyday or multiple flights in a day.
 

CommodoreMid

Whateva! I do what I want!
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Very true. For your first three sims, for example, there is only one trainer on base that accommodates that training, oh and not to mention that other people, ie real crews, need time in it too. I'd say my class had especially poor timing with it, and me in particular. I did my first NT before Thanksgiving, had to wait about 2 weeks to do my second one, and then didn't do my third till after the New Years, waiting almost a month. Needless to say it's pretty easy to brain dump stuff, so keeping up with reading NATOPS/chair flying on your own is important, even if you just do a little a day. So, yes, you will not have multiple events a day like primary.
 

IRfly

Registered User
None
If you're averaging more than 15 hours or so a week working, then you're wrong.
 

CommodoreMid

Whateva! I do what I want!
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Definitely not wrong here :) Although since the Navy gets its pound of flesh eventually, I fear that karma might be a bitch.
 

maddog2020

New Member
I just selected EP-3s. Does anyone if and how the RAG diifers from the P-3 syllabus. I heard a rumor that EP-3 people only go to JAX for 6 weeks then up to Whidbey. Can anyone shed some light on this?
 

FastMover

NFO
None
For EP-3s you'll go through the UMFO stage with the VP folks as mentioned above. After UMFO, the EP-3 studs begin preparing to do their Nav flights while the VP guys go through intermediate. You will stay with your original class until you get winged and then head to NUW a few weeks after that. In short, you will be at VP-30 for about the same amount of time as the VP guys.
 

CommodoreMid

Whateva! I do what I want!
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
As I kinda promised, I'll give you a short summary of the RAG about until winging. I finished my third nav flight yesterday, which basically means unless I go full retard I'm basically winged at this point (according to my instructor as he debriefed me yesterday).

So here's a short summary of the things you do in the intermediate/nav phases.

Classes. You will have a bunch of seminars on the computer and how to utilize it. You'll also have a lot of lectures on all your comm equipment, to include data link, TTY, wideband SATCOM, narrowband SATCOM, the MINI DAMA, and CIP stuff. The comm lectures will initially blow your mind, don't really worry about it as a lot of the stuff will make more sense when you get on the plane and get to touch boxes and stuff. At this point I highly suggest learning Nav and Comm signal flows to the best of your ability. I still have trouble describing it, but the more you study it the easier your flights will be and the more you'll understand how to deal with troubleshooting on the plane. Study the lectures (most are on the MPRA University link on NKO so you don't even need to go into VP-30 to study) along with the NATOPS references and you'll be good. One word of caution: the tests now are more difficult now than they were with the LSI guys. Case in point: on one of my tests in the UMFO phase one of the LSI guys happen to walk behind me as I was clicking on an answer and basically told me I was retarded if I chose that. The Navy instructors won't do that for you. Now you're expected to have a lot more of that NATOPS details in your head.

Device sessions. You had a bunch in the UMFO phase but you probably didn't really get much from them and had no idea what they were talking about during the rack walk throughs. The ones during these phase are TONS more helpful. The last ones you go through the entire preflight routine which helps immensely for your flights. The only thing that will suck for you, as it did for me, is if for these sessions you are constantly with a foreign student and as such you use different crypto. The first time I saw US crypto was on my first flight and that definitely slowed me down, but if that happens to you, oh well, deal with it. During these sessions you will see the comms, play with the computer, and deal with EPs. They are the most useful events before your flights as they make everything you learned in the lectures come together.

Discussions. During these phases you'll have nav, comm, and EP discussions. Come to them knowing everything you possibly can on the objectives in the student guide and questions on the stuff you honestly can't figure out. These times are wonderful for learning little tidbits you didn't cover in lectures or device sessions. Especially in the EP one, if your instructor is willing, go out to the plane to practice drills; it will help you know where you need to be for you flights.

Sims. You have two before you fly: NST-1 and NST-3 (they got rid of 2, don't know why). The main difference between these is that 1 is in the trainer you did you NT sims and are using the UIII computer and with 3 you use the AIP computer. These, IMO, are a lot easier than the NTs in that the instructors aren't screwing with you every chance they get. On NST-1 the instructor basically sits with you while you do your computer preflight and will even hand-walk you through a fix, so don't worry about it. NST-3 is not really difficult either, but they test you on your SA as they actively try to run you into MSA and MESA. Don't run into mountains and you'll do fine.

Your flights. The first one is not bad. You have no critical items and it's pretty much a fam on how P-3 flights work. Your 2nd and 3rd ones you'll get more critical items and be expected to perform at higher levels though, so make sure you keep studying your systems and know your EP drills and station duties during FOUO and ditching cold. I highly suggest going out to the plane on your own and practicing the drills so you get faster. I did that, but even on my last flight I screwed up the bailout drill and as a result automatically got a fair grade. EPs are probably the easiest way to screw up or even fail a flight, so don't do it.

After you nav flights (well, once everyone in your class is done with their nav flights) you'll start the tac phase classes, but you can't really move on to the tac phase until the calendar says because you do that with an entire crew, not just yourself. You have a comprehensive test supposedly (I haven't gotten there yet), but once you finish the flights and have done the test, congrats, you're going to wing!

Now I just can't wait till April 23. I bought my wings already, just want to pin them on!
 

CommodoreMid

Whateva! I do what I want!
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Oh, and one more thing: CNS-ATM. You'll have a class on this and you get issued a job aid and a word document on procedures, but let me tell you, even when referencing those will NATOPS, it will blow your mind. My last 2 flights I had CNS-ATM and despite all my studying, I still had a very hard time. Most of your instructors will understand this since they have had very little experience with is and are working through it as much as you are. I definitely got frustrated (especially since on both of those flights we had INS problems), but try to flow with it as much as you can. Not much you can do to prepare for it, but study, study, study your checklists and get familiar with SAC check and fixing procedures.
 

Alpha_Echo_606

Does not play well with others!™
Contributor
Oh, and one more thing: CNS-ATM. You'll have a class on this and you get issued a job aid and a word document on procedures, but let me tell you, even when referencing those will NATOPS, it will blow your mind. My last 2 flights I had CNS-ATM and despite all my studying, I still had a very hard time. Most of your instructors will understand this since they have had very little experience with is and are working through it as much as you are. I definitely got frustrated (especially since on both of those flights we had INS problems), but try to flow with it as much as you can. Not much you can do to prepare for it, but study, study, study your checklists and get familiar with SAC check and fixing procedures.

Oh the joys of CNS/ATM! If you think that is rough try to fix it after a F’d :censored_ up install, I've been chasing down bad parts to wiring problems for close to 4 weeks now. It doesn't help that EFDS was never checked out after it was installed so it's been good times here. :banghead_
 

scoolbubba

Brett327 gargles ballsacks
pilot
Contributor
CNS/ATM is one of those things that the P-3 community will probably have dialed in right around the same time the P-8 is fully integrated and we fly the last of the Warpigs to the boneyard. That last flight plan might be filed /G.
 
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