ORIGINS of PATCHES

[A4sForever]

I'm gonna' put this here ... so you-all can get the historical background to the FASOTRAGRUPAC SERE patch.

The "Jets to SERE" thread --- where someone asked the question about the origin of this patch --- is on the Private Naval Aviators forum and thus ... UNavailable to the unwashed and newbies on the forum. While the following information pertains to the SERE patch -- anyone who wants to put anything germaine to the subject of the origin of Flight Jacket patches --- feel free. The "heraldry" of Naval Aviation patches is interesting ... and historical. AF patches need not apply.


.... This comes from FASOTRAGRUPAC C.O. and Training O ... and is the "real deal" on the patch.

1. The KNIFE: Represents SURVIVAL ... the serrated edge of the Aviator survival knife is cutting through the barbed wire.

2. The BARBED WIRE: Represents RESTRAINT ... but the ends have been cut -- they are not closed -- to show the route of ESCAPE.

3. The (RED) CHINESE CHARACTERS (Traditional-- Pinyin) : "HERE THERE BE TIGERS ...."

The colors:

4. YELLOW: Caution.

5. GREEN: FREEDOM!!

6. BLACK: In memory of all those who have fallen ....

There you go .....

 

[Pags]

As always, good stuff A4s.

As I was drivin around the local jet base today, I was looking at some of the unit insignia on the buildings and was thinking about how some of these insignia are, in short, crap. not so much the squadrons, but the supporting units. very lacking when it comes to creativity and meaning. oh well.

 

[SteveG75]

Here is another one (not as good as A4's but dear to my heart):

1. The LIZARD: Serves as a sentinel, ready to strike from anywhere, at anytime, to preserve freedom.

2. The BLUE SEA: Represents all oceans.

3. The SETTING SUN: Symbolizes the ability to operate day or night in any weather.

4. The TRIDENT: Symbolizes the power of the Grumman A-6E Intruder, harkening back to the weapon used by Neptune, god of the sea, in Roman Mythology.

5. The BLACK BORDER around the emblem: Serves as a reminder of fallen comrades who contributed to America's freedom.

 

[FlyinSpy]

As always, good stuff A4s.

Damn straight - A4s is one of the reasons I keep up with this forum.

He validates the continuing wisdom of Dumb & Dumber, the movie I center my life around: http://www.moviewavs.com/cgi-bin/moviewavs.cgi?Dumb_And_Dumber=senior.wav

 

[Blutonski816]

good stuff..

So I'm guessin' this thread is gonna be a history lesson about the origin of Squadron patches & insignia??

 

[A4sForever]

By the way ... VP-5 ... I think it started out as VP-17"F" (now what is the "F" anyway ???) IN 1937 !!! That has got to be one of the oldest/one of the old still goin' today ..... GlobalSecurity.org is wrong --- I think --- when they ascribe the VP-5 lineage to VPB-135 @ NAS Whidbey in 1942. HistoryNavy.mil lists VP-5"S" (what's the "S"?) as standing up in 1931 !!! 1931 !!! Any of you VP types have any historical information on the lineage of these two squadrons ??? Anyone ??? Anyone ??? Buehler ???

From the GlobalSecurity website: http://www.globalsecurity.org/

Patrol Squadron FIVE was commissioned in September 1942 as Bombing Squadron 135 at Whidbey Island, Washington. It was nicknamed the "Blind Fox" squadron and was assigned the PBY "Catalina" aircraft. In less than a month the squadron received a new aircraft, Lockheed's PV-1 "Vega Ventura", which was flown in several bombing missions during World War II. In 1948 the squadron received its first Lockheed P2V "Neptune" aircraft which contained the Magnetic Anomaly Detector (MAD). Shortly thereafter the squadron became know as the "Mad Foxes" and in December 1948 was designated Patrol Squadron FIVE.

 

[Pags]

I guess a lot of the current squadrons don't have the same lineage, but some of the VF, and now now VFA insignia have been around for years; many going back to pre-WWII.

 

[A4sForever]

^VF-2 is has an interesting history ... twists and turns and almost a "riddle". They became the "top" VF squadron in the Pacific in WW2 -- more victories and more Aces than any other VF. Will the "real" VF-2 please stand up .... ???

From the VF-2 website: http://www.lemoore.navy.mil/vfa-2/history.html
At the beginning of WWII VF-2 "Flying Chiefs" was comprised of non-commissioned officers, chiefs, hence their name. They flew F2A-2 and F2A-3 Brewster Buffaloes and operated off of the USS Lexington (CV-2) along with the other squadrons of Air Group Two.

​

F2A-2 Buffalo of VF-2 "Flying Chiefs"
At the time of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor they were the only US Navy Pacific Fleet squadron operating F2A-3's and saw little action in the Buffaloes. Soon after, January of 1942, the "Flying Chiefs" transitioned to the F4F Wildcat. While in the little 'Cat, they were involved in the Battle of the Coral Sea during 7-8 May 42. VF-2 shot down 6 confirmed, 5 probables, and 3 more damaged. Unfortunately, they also lost 7 of their own.

They originally were called "The Flying Chiefs" ... (hello-o-o-o-o-o-o, "Flying WO's" to-be??) ... but after the Lexington was sunk at Coral Sea ... the pilots were scattered and served in a variety of units -- mostly shore based units. I interviewed one of the Pearl Harbor vintage VF-2 survivors last year --- more to come from that ..... Some of the Chiefs became Commisioned Officers ... and the squadron, VF-2, was reconstituted and came aboard the Enterprise (CV-6) in late 1943.

Also from the website:
..."VF-2 was the top fighter squadron in the Pacific with more total victories and more ace pilots than any other fighter squadron. Life magazine called them the Hottest Squadron in the Pacific. The "Rippers" set a record that still stands: out of 50 pilots, 27 were confirmed aces. After World War II VF-2 was disestablished and did not reappear until 27 years later when, on 14 October 1972, VF-2 "Bounty Hunters", flying F-14s, was established."




...... Original VF-2 "Red Rippers" patch ... circa 1943

The question: Why "Bounty Hunters" when they stood up with F-14's ???

 

[Pugs]

By the way ... VP-5 ... I think it started out as VP-17"F" (now what is the "F" anyway ???) IN 1937 !!! That has got to be one of the oldest/one of the old still goin' today ..... GlobalSecurity.org is wrong --- I think --- when they ascribe the VP-5 lineage to VPB-135 @ NAS Whidbey in 1942. HistoryNavy.mil lists VP-5"S" (what's the "S"?) as standing up in 1931 !!! 1931 !!! Any of you VP types have any historical information on the lineage of these two squadrons ??? Anyone ??? Anyone ??? Buehler ???
.

Not a VP type but a Naval Aviation history geek

The website VPNavy.org I've found pretty useful in these times has VP-17F became VP-42 on 1 July 49. VP-5 has along history with several changes listed here http://www.vpnavy.org/vp5.html

No clue about why the "S" designation Scouting perhaps?

This was also an interesting site

http://list-of-united-states-navy-aircraft-squadrons.wikiverse.org/

 

[Pags]

The question: Why "Bounty Hunters" when they stood up with F-14's ???

well, with what I can divine from the somewhat arcane lineage system, the original VF-2 sailed on board the USS Langley back in the 20s when Naval Aviation was brand new and even A4s didn't have wings; in fact they were the first squadron to be deployed on board a carrier. When on board the Langley, their aircraft carried red, white, and blue stripes (also known as a Langley Stripe, which VFA-2 still wears to this day) on their tail. After 1927, the original VF-2 was renamed VF-6, and VF-2 became the Flying Chiefs. Or so says the current VFA-2 website.

Now, I can only assume that the original VF-2 used an insignia similar to the current VFA-2 isignia, hence the biplanes. VFA-2's squadron history is a little vague as to which VF-2 is the "real" VF-2; they seem to acknowledge all of them in their lineage.

 

[HeyJoe]

The Rippers today have come and gone as subsequent squadrons adopted the lineage of earlier units as the Jolly Rogers have down. the Felix squadron is not the original outfit either and the VF-32 of today (VFA-32) came about in early 1945 when fighter squadrons became so big on CVs (driven by Kamikaze threat) that they were split in two (back then Felix was on VF-3 and the new squadron VBF-3B eventually became the Swordsmen of today after a series of redesignations...starting with VBF-3....Established 1 Feb 1945 VBF-3 Redesignated VF-4A 15 Nov 1946 VF-4A Redesignated VF-32 7 Aug 1948).

There is sometimes no sense to the lineage of squadrons and you certainly can't use numbers and names can change as well. Originally in WWII, the squadrons got their numbers from their host carrier (ie CV-6 would have Fighting Six, Scouting Six, Torpedo Six and Bombing Six). If a squadron switched carriers, their number changed, the numbering system has changed so many times, it boggles any researchers or readers attempts to figure out their logic sometimes. Of the Fighter Squadrons, only the VF-14 Tophatters can trace their lineage back to the first Navy Squadron and boast of unbroken lineage.

 

[HeyJoe]

VF-2 markings

Now, I can only assume that the original VF-2 used an insignia similar to the current VFA-2 isignia, hence the biplanes. VFA-2's squadron history is a little vague as to which VF-2 is the "real" VF-2; they seem to acknowledge all of them in their lineage.

More on VF-1 and 2. When the Tomcat was due to hit the fleet, VF-124 became the new Tomcat FRS and enough personnel were sent to Miramar to flesh out two squadrons, which were initially called VF-A and B. Replacements checked into the RAG not knowing which squadron they would eventually go to. The first two COs were in the FRS and they collaboratively sheperded the group through the syllabus. Only when they were ready to become real squadrons did they sit down and each chose personnel to go to A or B not knowing which squadron they would get. This made the squadrons very even in talent. When they were done, they flipped a coin to see who got which squadron. A and B became VF-1 and VF-2. The new squadrons then sat down and decided what markings and symbolism they wanted to adopt. VF-2 adopted the "Langley" Stripe (red, white and blue slash) and several other images into their Bounty Hunter patch. They could not have become the "Rippers" as VF-11 had been using that one (over time the Rippers, Top hats, Felix and Bones were immensely popular* and adopted by other squadrons whenever they became available, which is encouraged by Naval History Office to preserve heritage VF-1 went for a new design and became the Wolfpack).

*note: without Air Warriors and mass communications, there were actually two Felix squadrons and two Top hat squadrons at same time in WWII for brief periods.

 

[SteveG75]

Winter 2005 issue of "The Hook" has a great article by Rick Morgan entitled,

Untangling the Mess, Naval Aviation Squadron Lineage

Rick talks about the difference between Established/Disestablished, Commissioned/Decommissioned, Activated/Deactivated/Reactivated and Redesignation. For example VAQ-133 and 137 were NOT reestablished, they are all new squadrons that have assumed the names (and traditions) of the old.

 

[HeyJoe]

Winter 2005 issue of "The Hook" has a great article by Rick Morgan entitled,

Untangling the Mess, Naval Aviation Squadron Lineage

Rick talks about the difference between Established/Disestablished, Commissioned/Decommissioned, Activated/Deactivated/Reactivated and Redesignation. For example VAQ-133 and 137 were NOT reestablished, they are all new squadrons that have assumed the names (and traditions) of the old.

Rick is one of the better historians in this regard and not just with the Prowler community from which he hails (as an ECMO).

 

[HAL Pilot]

By the way ... VP-5 ... I think it started out as VP-17"F" (now what is the "F" anyway ???) IN 1937 !!! That has got to be one of the oldest/one of the old still goin' today ..... GlobalSecurity.org is wrong --- I think --- when they ascribe the VP-5 lineage to VPB-135 @ NAS Whidbey in 1942. HistoryNavy.mil lists VP-5"S" (what's the "S"?) as standing up in 1931 !!! 1931 !!! Any of you VP types have any historical information on the lineage of these two squadrons ??? Anyone ??? Anyone ??? Buehler ???

VP-46, my first squadron, is actually the oldest VP squadron flying. They started as VP-5S. The current VP-5 is the second oldest and started as VP-17.


http://www.naswi.navy.mil/vp-46/about.html
Patrol Squadron Forty-Six is the oldest continuously operating Patrol Squadron in the United States Navy. Commissioned in September of 1931 at Coco Solo, the Canal Zone, as VP-5S, the squadron received eight name changes during the next 17 years until September 1948, when she acquired her present designation.....


http://www.vp5.navy.mil/index.php?id=32&secid=20
Commissioned in 1937 and initially designated as VP-17, the Navy's second oldest VP squadron....VP-17 changed designation to VP-42 in 1939 .....Redesignated as VP-135 and then to Medium Patrol Squadron FIVE, the Blind Foxes relocated again in January 1947.....Designated as VP-5 in December 1948, the squadron became known as the ‘Mad Foxes” and changed the patch to depict a fox casually preparing to strike a submarine with a sledgehammer.....