Opinions on Lehman

[zab1001]

Well, I just re-read "Fall from Glory: The Men who Sank the US Navy" about Lehman and the Reagan era administration. Granted, it is extremely slanted, but I found a lot of it interesting. Any of you senior guys have any thoughts on Lehman's policies? What about the supposed shady way he got his FO wings?

Also just read "The Pilots" by James Spencer. Excellent stick and rudder fiction. Buying copies for all my buds as I leave the squadron.

 

[virtu050]

Mr. Lehman was the guest speaker at my OCS graduation... his son was in my class. I thought he was primarily responsible for building the 600 ship navy... and didn't he get pilot wings too?

 

[Jolly Roger]

I haven't read that particular book, but I have read On Seas Of Glory by Lehman. It gives a good general history of the Navy and he isn't bragadocious about himself when he gives the account of the Navy under his tenure.

My dad served under him in the late '70s and he does not like him that much, but he has never said why. As far as the 9/11 commission goes, I haven't seen enough of it to make a judgement of him in that regard.

 

[zab1001]

Doing a little research (aka net surfing while my movers do my pack-out), I found he did somehow get pilot qual'ed in helos. Supposedly to the chagrin of many fleet guys. He was also a CO of an A-6 reserve squadron while serving as SECNAV. Weird.

I think I also read he was responsible for bringing back brown shoes.

 

[Flash]

What about the supposed shady way he got his FO wings?

I found he did somehow get pilot qual'ed in helos.

I have never heard this before, could you elaborate? It does sound kind of shady though, maybe he wanted to be one of the boys really bad. As for the book, I read it for about an hour in a bookstore and was rather unimpressed. It was incredibly biased and I could not take anything in it too seriously. He did bring back brown shoes and leather flight jackets as a uniform item. Apparently there were restrictions on its wear before '81. The Air Force got so jealous they lobbied for their jackets really hard in '90, believe or not they did not issue them for a long time, something like 30 years.

 

[ordinary_guy]

Spencer's book, "The Pilots," is great. However, I certainly hope that aircrews are not that prone to go insane. All in all, a stellar read.

 

[zab1001]

In a nutshell, and 3 weeks after reading the book, the claim is that he never went through the standard (for then) flight school path. Supposedly he was an intel guy (or staff type of some sort) as a reservist. I guess he went on one ride in an A-6 "over the beach" into Vietnam and wanted to do it full time. He got his hands on the syllabus and started showing up at A-6 squadrons and getting guys to take him flying and sign him off. The via some strange connections got winged as a BN.

Again, this is all from what the book said, and I agree it was very slanted. That's why I posted it here, i thought maybe some of our older guys might know more.

As far as the helo wings go, I guess a SECNAV can pretty much do what he wants.

 

[zab1001]

Thread bumped now that we have plenty of sets of "old balls" on here who might have an opinion...(A4s...Shnug...etc etc)

 

[SteveG75]

Try reading "Command at Sea". It is Lehman's own book about his time as SECNAV.

 

[UncleFester]

IMHO, anyone in office who pisses some people off can't be all bad. John Lehman may or may not have been a great man, but he and James Webb at least tried to be a part of the Navy they ran instead of an office-holder.
And Gregory Vitasca has a serious axe to grind with the Navy. His writing is sensational, biased and unsupported by facts. I don't know what is problem is precisely, but I wouldn't trust a damn thing he writes.

 

[Steve Wilkins]

I think I also read he was responsible for bringing back brown shoes.

Long live the brown shoes!

 

[A4sForever]

Thread bumped now that we have plenty of sets of "old balls" on here who might have an opinion...(A4s...Shnug...etc etc)

Lehman, Lehman ... now where did I put his file??? I have a file on all of you, BTW ...

All opinion, if you don't want it ... hit "delete" now:

He was O.K. ... liked to "Rock 'n Roll" in the aircraft and enjoyed the hop -- He was quite suprised that his pilot was a former A-6 driver. I was "gifted" that day and the fact that a former A-6 PUKE could double-hammer-humble some of VF-201/202's finest egocentric types was not lost on Sec. John.

We "did lunch" at the NAS Dallas O'club -- with about 100 others. John let me leave my flight suit on -- it was what I came to work in that day (not really supposed to, then) much to the disgust of the assorted brass (military and civilian big-shots) from the DFW area who were assembled for chow. Had a good chat --- bottom line for me: he was an operator who liked to get things done.

Was he perfect? No...

Was he a jerk? No... but he was a take-charge, hard-chargin' type. Makes it easier if you are SecNav, I suppose ... :icon_wink

He is/was hard core -- not too much given to the "gentlemanly ways" of the Beltway --- but he knew how to get things done. Can't argue with that, especially since I was a supporter of most of his bigger, better Navy schemes ... I know nothing about the source or "quality" of his Wings of Gold. He knew what he was doing in the backseat of a 2-place A-4 and I knew what I was doing in the front seat --- a marriage made in Heaven??

By the way ... he had a very bad moto-scooter for a personal conveyance. The finest, most tricked-out A-3 any of you will ever see ...

 

[Godspeed]

Well, for some damn reason, they named the "Lehman Engineering and Technology Center," (the building of which i spend 94% of my life in, and am doomed to 2.3 more years of braindraining imprisonment in) after the guy. Considering how much time I spend there, I feel I should at least be able to give you guys an explanation of why, but unfortunately, I have no idea.

 

[HAL Pilot]

He brought back both brown shoes and the ability to wear flight jackets with khakis.

Supposedly he was doing his reserve duties and walking around base in khakis and a flight jacket. A shoe Captain stopped him and reamed him for wearing the jacket. He "yes sirred", took the jacket off and went to the comm center. There he sent out an ALNAV authorizing wearing a flight jacket with khakis. He put a copy of the message in his pocket, put the jacket back on and went on his way. The same shoe Captain saw him again and started tearing him a new one. Lehman brought out his ALNAV and showed it to the Captain. Only than did the Captain realize he was SECNAV.

Don't know if this is true, but I had a copy of that ALNAV in my jacket pocket when I was a TAO school instructor at Dam Neck (big time shoe land). It was used a lot.

I liked Lehman. He worked for the Sailors and the Navy. Many quality of life improvements during his tenure. There was also plenty of money to fly and train with.

 

[wink]

Never supped with Lehman like A-4s, but he was the boss for most of the time I was on active duty. I still remember seeing him speak at Tailhook when he offically announced the jacket was coming back. I had been one of the last classes to get leather in AOCS before they went away. Agree with HAL as well. No matter how he earned the wings, he had a good rep as an airman. Like A-4s said, he was a part of a crew and took the job seriously. He came aboard my ship once and flew a no sh!t mission with the VAW guys. They said he was great. As I recall the story, an EA-3 Sky Warrior had been lost trying to take a barrier. The Sky Warrior had a well deserved rep as being a handful to bring aboard. No ejection seats, old cracked wings, and practically in a constant bingo fuel state. My Airwing had lost one a couple years before. Anyway, on the way to meet the families of the lost airman Lehamn decided to ditch the EA-3. Because he was an aviator and had operated in the real world, he knew the rep. He announced it to the families first, then shut the program down. He was a man in charge. that is for sure.