On the fence

[zwiley]

After a long and arduous application process, I have finally been selected as a SNA BDCP officer candidate. This week I will turn in my depth perception waiver from a civilian doctor, and shortly thereafter I should be sworn in as a member of the United States Navy. I have a problem, however.

I feel strongly about my country, and want very much to serve in its defence. However, I am starting to have second thoughts about committing to Naval Aviation. I applied for an intel spot originally, because I am a political science major and a linguist (French, some Russian, some Spanish, passable English ;-) ). I got turned down for the intel spot, and got picked up as an aviator. I love the idea of flying, and have actually wanted to be a pilot since I was a kid, but I'm nervous about a few things:

1. The time: how do you all feel about spending a decade as a navy pilot? Has it been rewarding? Have you felt, at times, constrained by the lack of personal choice?

2. The possibility of inter-service transfers: I have a skill set that is matched to Naval Aviation, I want to sign up to be a Naval Aviator. I read something here about officers being transferred to the army, does that actually happen? No offence to army people, they are incredibly brave and I am grateful for their service, its just not what I feel I am best suited for.

3. Family: I'm considering proposing to my girlfriend, how hard is it to have a family in the Navy? What if my wife has her own career? I assume that complicates things.

I hope I don't ruffle any feathers with this post, I'm just looking for guidance. I'm not using the Navy to jump start my career, I will probably end up in law school or a PhD program instead of as a professional pilot, so please don't interpret my question as "can I get what I want from the Navy without too much personal discomfort". I want to serve, I just want to be sure that I am making the best decision. Thanks for the time.

 

[BrandonJ1780]

Hey Zwiley, I know you'll get the AW bigwigs to weigh in on you soon enough, but since I'm here I might as well say a few things. One, as you hopefully recognize, you have already been blessed beyond measure with a potential pilot slot. IMHO, you're already ahead of 99% of all men in the world. Maybe 99% is a bit much, but dude, it's a huge honor to be selected--countless guys would love the chance. That being said, after reading your profile, my gut reaction is: How much does this guy really want it? In your 'Trifecta' section, you listed working in the firm above learning to fly--that may be exactly true, and if so, that's fine--but for me, if I had been trying for a pilot slot, like BALLS OUT trying for a pilot slot, I'd have that dream listed #1, at the very least #2. Small point, but like I said, gut reaction. If you truly have doubts about pursuing such a commitment right now...I'm not going to say don't do it, but I don't think you ought to go into such a commitment with hard-core doubts. Maybe you're just having a spell of cold feet, happens to us all--that's for you to determine. If Intel is truly what you want, I'd guess that you could re-apply right? From what I've read on here, guys don't get selected, they try again. Some of the experienced posters on here could tell you w/ certainty, but re-applying for Intel ought to be an option, maybe your perseverance would be rewarded, who knows...On the marriage thing, a friend of mine recently became a P-3 pilot. He mentioned that, while still undoubtedly difficult, he thought it was a good choice for he and his new bride. There's hope--just depends on how committed to the dream you are, and how committed she's gonna be to you. That's just my 2 AM thoughts...Best wishes to you, good luck with the choice.

 

[TXHusker05]

I'll start with number 3 first... some of the deployed aviators will be able to weigh in on this from their standpoint but I can give you the intel comparison. Intel can be very time demanding because the intel doesn't wait to present itself during business hours, intel officers especially can end up putting in 18 hour days during shore duty and often the same during a sea tour. Your first intel assignment would generally be with an aviation squadron on a carrier somewhere so you would have to get used to going a long time without seeing your family. Now if you take your SNA slot, you will spend a couple years in training or waiting for training and you will have the chance to see your family quite a bit if they come with you. It will obviously complicate things if your wife to be has her own career and can't necessarily come with you to Pensacola but then again, the same can be said for going to intel school. Depending on how far away your wife's job takes her, it might be hard to see her.

I don't think you would have to worry about being sent to the Army, Naval Aviators are an expensive breed and the Navy wants to keep them. You might have heard about Navy pilots being selected for IA jobs in country (Iraq, Kuwait, Bahrain, etc.), now that can happen but hopefully as we get down the line, we won't need those.

I can't speak for being an aviator but from what I understand, those who are in aviation, love it. If you believe you have the skills and the determination to fly for the Navy, I'd say do it, you will probably love it. Now I am like you a History major and Poli Sci (International Affairs) minor (after changing from Business Management). I don't have a language but am working on learning Arabic. I've also worked in an intel environment so I know my way around, it is a great field to work in and I don't think you will be disappointed. Maybe you should try talking to your wife to be about this, if you are serious about marrying her, she should help make the decision. Other than that, do what your heart tells you.

 

[Oh-58Ddriver]

Becoming an aviator in any branch is hours and hours of hard work. Yes, it is fun, and you pinch yourself sometimes to make sure it is reality. But here is the deal. Every aviator out there had days in flight school with incredible amounts of stress that were tough to wake up and face. And at those moments, you have to want to be a pilot deep down, you have to KNOW it is worth it. It is not something that you can show up and do half heartedly and be even remotely successful at. More lives than yours are at stake.

As for the Army comment...yeah, we fly closer to the ground, but it requires no less bravery to be a Navy pilot. I am not sure what skills set you are referring to, but if it is that you think there is somehow less bravery involved in landing on a carrier at night than taking AK47 pop-shots flying around Baghdad, I think you may be mistaken.

My gut reaction is to tell you that if your heart is not set on Naval Aviation, if you want to be Intel, or if you are having these doubts, do not take the slot. There are at least 10 other guys that tried for that slot that know being an aviator is the only thing they want to be. And that is the attitude you need to be successful, and perhaps more applicable to you, to be happy.

 

[HooverPilot]

After a long and arduous application process, I have finally been selected as a SNA BDCP officer candidate. This week I will turn in my depth perception waiver from a civilian doctor

Wow, I have never heard of a depth perception waiver for pilot. I am actually a little frightened by the idea. As for the rest, I have been in the Navy for just over 8 years and would do it all over again in a heart beat. HOWEVER, if you have doubts, then I have doubts about if you are going to be successful. Sorry, but that is just how I see it.

 

[Fmr1833]

Let me just say first of all, good luck in what you do. That having been said, if you are not 100% in love with the idea of being a Naval Aviator, then go somewhere else. Seriously. No disrespect or anything, but this training pipeline can suck the fun right out of you and there have been MANY days when it was only my desire for wings that got me through to the next day. I've seen 7 or 8 friends/acquaintances quit because of the pressure here which sucks because it means that some poor Middie got SWO (no offense, Steve) when he wanted Aviation and the dude who got 'his' slot just bailed. Seriously, I don't know how you could get through without really wanting it.

The military is tough on families. Period. Make sure that your girlfriend knows the hardships up front so that she can make a choice that is right for her. Research possible stations to see what type of prospects she would have in her chosen field. Make sure that she can handle running a house (to include calling the cable company/plumber when things break, washing/servicing the cars, taking care of the kids by herself, making sure the bills go out in time, etc) for 8 months while you are gone.

Talk to her about the dangerous nature of aviation. I've been the pipeline 10 months and have seen more than a few situations that could have EASILY gone another, more tragic way. I've had two no kidding emergencies myself and both times had to consider that something bad could have happened to me...and then I put that thought away for some other time. 7 or 8 students and instructors have died in the time I've been in training, as well. Is she/are you prepared for the realities of Naval air? An 18 hour day in the Intel shop may be long, but is isn't getting hurtled off the end of USS Boat to go in country to get the job done.

So, think about it from a realistic point of view. Naval Aviation is the greatest job in the world...pajamas at work, hair on fire, intense friendships, a sense that you are one of the elite (because you are) and the knowledge that you WILL, at some point in the very near future, be in combat.

Again, good luck in what is a very important decision.

 

[zwiley]

Wow, I have never heard of a depth perception waiver for pilot. I am actually a little frightened by the idea.

Sorry, I mean that I failed the depth perception test at MEPS, and I am getting a civilian doctor to administer one that doesn't suck. In actuality, my DP is fine. Thanks for all the great responses gentelman (and ladies, though there seem to be less of those on here). Y'all are just one more reason I DO want to go into naval aviation, if such an intelligent and well spoken bunch of guys are navy pilots, it really MUST be a challenge.

 

[Fmr1833]

Some of us are FO's!

 

[zippy]

Second thoughts are normal when it comes to most things. Although few will probably admit it, a bunch of us have had them at one point or another.

I always wanted to be an aviator, but I did some debating about the 8yr committment after wings during the summer between Jr and Sr year in college. I talked to a few people retired Naval Aviators and others about it, they all said great things and seemed to think i was nuts for sweating the committment. I had an internship where I enjoyed what I was doing so I was wondering if 10yrs of this was going to be too much. Then I went on summer cruise...I had a ****ty 1st class summer cruise and came to the realization that I'd gladly take 10yrs of being an aviator over 4yrs of being a swo.

Had a stash job for 7 months or so in a cubicle doing the same thing i did during the internship. I still liked it, but it was a job. Once i got through API academics I've never really felt that this was a job (ok, in ground school i do)...it is just fun. Talking to a bunch of my friends, we agree- none of us associate what we do with getting a paycheck.

You need to take a step back for a few minutes and think about why you originally put aviation down on your dream sheet... you've wanted to be a pilot since you were a kid. I was the same way. You want to do the intel thing... sounds familiar. 10yrs after you graduate, how old will you be? 32ish??? I remember something out there saying that 32 was the average age people start a career... If you still want to do the intel thing after your commitment is up, lat transfer to that designator- or get out and persue a civilian career in the field. Having military experience isn't going to hurt you on the application. You could also potentially do some intel related stuff on a shour tour.

Things for you to think about... knowing what I do about BDCP, I would say that you've got the icing on the cake... Not many people get the opertunity you have sitting in front you of. Many people are going to say you are crazy if you don't take it... maybe they know something you don't.

 

[wink]

There are a million good reasons to accept the offer and go fly in the world's greatest Navy. There is something less then a million reasons not to. Check out a thread somewhere here about what I like about Naval Aviation. Lots of good reasons to do it. Mostly it is because there is absolutely no way you can experience this type of life anywhere else but the Navy. When I went to my high school reunion everyone wanted to talk about what I did. No one wanted to talk about being a real estate investor, optomitrist, ski instructor, or MD. I flew an airline trip with a guy that was a F-15 Desert Storm vet and he kept asking me about flying around the boat. All his experiences and he was still impressed with NAVAIR.

 

[The Stinkster]

Sorry, I mean that I failed the depth perception test at MEPS, and I am getting a civilian doctor to administer one that doesn't suck. In actuality, my DP is fine. Thanks for all the great responses gentelman (and ladies, though there seem to be less of those on here). Y'all are just one more reason I DO want to go into naval aviation, if such an intelligent and well spoken bunch of guys are navy pilots, it really MUST be a challenge.

We have beaten this subject up in a lot of different forums, but do some searches on eye exam questions to make sure that you know what you are getting into. Even if you passed with a civilian doctor and got to API, you still have to pass the depth perception and other eye exams that are given by NOMI. If you don't pass with them, you will be redesignated an NFO possibly, or who knows what. Short version, if you don't pass the WAMI, you may not fly. Is that going to be acceptable? You will have to decide.

You have gotten a lot of good info from the guys on AW. I am strongly with the group that feels that if your heart is not TOTALLY into this and you are not totally committed and wanting to wear the wings more than anything you will not succeed. This is not an entitlement program. It takes total commitment and an understanding of the life that you signed up for to succeed. For your future wife, the career path can be a tricky thing, unless she is in a field that is very mobile. You will move a minimum of every three years once in the fleet, and you could move as every year or less for the first couple of years while you are in flight training. That is a lot of moving around while trying to establish a career. The Navy could assign you overseas. You could fly for your first 3 years of your commitment and then be assigned to a non-flying job for the next three. You could get assigned to a 500+day IA in Iraq unaccompanied, with two weeks notice. There is a lot to this job that you need to research and feel out whether it is right for you. I guess I am giving you the perspective of one of the "old guys" (relatively) on the board, but what all these guys from SNA's to retired aviators will tell you and are telling you is true. It is the greatest job in the world, and a great honor to be selected to join the ranks of those who fly to protect this country. With it come many sacrifices and hardships. If it is not something that is right for you, that is fine, but there are hundreds of guys that want it more than anything else and are not getting the chance. Look at what you really want in life and what is important to you. Do searches on this board and find out what the career path is like and what the lifestyle entails. Good luck with your decision, and if you decide to join the ranks, welcome! If you sign on and go to flight school, work hard, love what you do and take the good with the bad, but DON'T go into Naval Aviation on the "fence". In this job there is no fence.....you either love it, or you are just pretending and you will hate it.

 

[Schnugg]

If you don't pass with them, you will be redesignated an NFO possibly, or who knows what.

Wow...that would be horrible!!!

 

[zwiley]

You could get assigned to a 500+day IA in Iraq unaccompanied, with two weeks notice.

I keep hearing about this "IA". WHat IS it? How common is it? I'm confused (my natural state).

 

[saltpeter]

Make your choice solely based on what will ultimately make you happy. Some people like flying, and sing its' praise, others like to have a few martinis before getting on a plane. Deep down inside if you've asked this question you probably are not right for aviation and should do whatever makes you happy. If INTEL excites you, tell the Navy thanks, but I'd rather be an INTEL dude or Fed. The truth is no matter what you do, eventually it becomes a job. I've taken my son flying and he finds it boring and falls asleep rather quickly.

 

[Thisguy]

2. The possibility of inter-service transfers: I have a skill set that is matched to Naval Aviation, I want to sign up to be a Naval Aviator. I read something here about officers being transferred to the army, does that actually happen? No offence to army people, they are incredibly brave and I am grateful for their service, its just not what I feel I am best suited for.

Just to jump in on this, an officer has to apply for inter-service transfer, and there's a lot of paperwork that goes into this. You won't get transferred against your own will, this is something you must actively seek out. To give an example, with the S-3 going away, the JOs have to basically transition to another platform, or get out after shore duty. One of our pilots successfully transferred to the Air Force to fly U2s and another did an interservice transfer to the Marines.