OLD SCHOOL VT-4, PENSACOLA, GUNS, and da' BEACH !!!

[Catmando]

*edit* ... started this thread as the other one was 'drifting' w/ 'best movies' and was beginning to go in this direction anyway ... and I don't remember a whole lot of discussion on this website re: "The 'REAL' VT-4" and the part it played in the NAVAIRTRACOM for many, many of us 'senior' guys ...

It was an exciting time for a bunch of young skulls full of cottage cheese and a 'rite of passage' for most of us -- ranking right behind initial CQ for many.

Remember one of the opening scenes when JW's semi-out of control aircraft antics cause a couple of guys to bail off the train and into the water while coming across what is Bayou Grande ... ???

That train track used to run parallel to the bridge over to main gate @ Mainside. A great little Italian restaurant used to occupy the east side of S. Navy Blvd. immediately off the bridge and my duplex was on the west side of S. Navy Blvd -- across the street.

You should know that "real fighter pilots" lived on the beach, and risked being late to a VT-4 early morning briefs, rather than living safely and wimpishly just outside the main gate. :icon_smil

BTW, $80 a month split 2-ways between a helo driver and me, just off of Via de luna, gulf side.
After a morning guns hop, I sailed a neighboring female friend's Sunfish, and later occasionally filled in as pizza chef at Dirty Joes. One of the most pleasant couple of months in the Navy.... for reasons you can imagine.

 

[A4sForever]

You should know that "real fighter pilots" lived on the beach, and risked being late to a VT-4 early morning briefs, rather than living safely and wimpishly just outside the main gate. :icon_smil

Don't know about 'real' fighter pilots since I wasn't one at the time ... although I won the $$$$ pool during GUNS @ VT-4 with over 100 hits on the banner during the armed hops (I know, I know ... I drew good gunsights -- a rare thing in the T-2s, and I got lucky). But 100 is 100 ... and I'll take 'lucky' over 'good' anyday ... ESPECIALLY as a NAVAIR STUD !!!

I lived out by the airport while in VT-4 in what was then a nice, new, low-mileage apartment complex. It was a 'new' concept for the area as well ... in fact, the mall right across the street was 'new' for Pensacola ... they even had a WALMART, which I appreciated as I'd moved on from the K-Mart near Saufley.

I lived right outside Mainside during Preflight and Primary @ VT-1. That was a good deal & a nice place; it worked for me ...

 

[Catmando]

Don't know about 'real' fighter pilots since I wasn't one at the time ... although I won the $$$$ pool during GUNS @ VT-4 with over 100 hits on the banner during the armed hops (I know, I know ... I drew good gunsights -- a rare thing in the T-2s, and I got lucky). But 100 is 100 ... and I'll take 'lucky' over 'good' anyday ... ESPECIALLY as a NAVAIR STUD !!!

I lived out by the airport while in VT-4 in what was then a nice, new, low-mileage apartment complex. It was a 'new' concept for the area as well ... in fact, the mall right across the street was 'new' for Pensacola ... they even had a WALMART, which I appreciated as I'd moved on from the K-Mart near Saufley.

I lived right outside Mainside during Preflight and Primary @ VT-1. That was a good deal & a nice place; it worked for me ...

Communist! I got stuck in the BOQ in Preflight and Primary!

100 Hits??? That was close to a record, wasn't it? Even one hit was impressive back then and few got any.
I got a number of hits, but not anywhere near that many.
I guess I must have been having too much fun on P'cola beach that detracted from my, "in air" gunnery performace. .

 

[A4sForever]

....100 Hits??? That was close to a record, wasn't it? Even one hit was impressive back then and few got any....

I don't know what the record was, but I know it was over 100 ... I got 50 +/- combined on my second & third shooting hop ... there had been so much bitching about the sucking sights with their non-existent gyros that there was a major effort to make 'em work (at least for a while) and we were lucky enough to be there when it went down. The sights were 'on' and the guns were reliable. As a result, my class and a couple of classes either side of us had several guys at @ 25-50 hits total, and I think only 2-3 guys in my class flashed during the entire syllabus ...

My primary GUN Instructor AND 'safe for solo' check-ride Instructor was the 'GUN BOSS' ... he was completely nuts and scared the shit out of everyone ... so of course, I got him. He was Air Force exchange and actually wore 'jack boots' instead of regular flight boots. A fearsome asshole, but he brought the best out in me, if only as a result of the fear of death.

He allowed that my shooting and pattern was the best he'd seen ... he lurched over the table w/ the grade-sheet and yelled: "THAT WAS SHIT-HOT, MISTER !!!" I just wanted to get out of the debriefing room ...

Hell, at different times I won 3 categories in A-6 bombing competitions (visual laydown, visual dive, and boresight -- and dropped the West Coast QAST in '74 (?) ... and 3 visual categories in the A-4 (guns, rockets, and bombs). I'm a good 'shot', always have been ...

It's all in the 'wrist' ...

 

[HAL Pilot]

I'm a good 'shot', always have been ...

It's all in the 'wrist' ...

Soooooo, sooooo many possibilities.........

 

[Catmando]

A4s - Did you go through P'cola before or after the famous and tragic demise of MoH winner, Maj. Pless?

 

[A4sForever]

... 100 Hits??? That was close to a record, wasn't it? Even one hit was impressive back then and few got any.
I got a number of hits, but not anywhere near that many.
I guess I must have been having too much fun on P'cola beach that detracted from my, "in air" gunnery performace. .

I think 'they' were running 50 rounds/pod a little before we got the dedicated MX on the gunsights (remember them -- WW2 vintage Mk8 gunsights [can't remember the Mod]); definitely NOT 'funsights' ...

While the major effort was being dedicated to making the sights 'work' ... the Ordies' figured out that the gun pods 'liked' a full belt (100 rounds) vice the 50 round belts they had been running to save $$$ and MX.

Soooooo ... w/ 'working' sights, more reliable guns, 2 X more .50 cal/hop (200 rounds total), and 6 shooting hops in the 10-hop syllabus if your guns didn't jam ... that's only 100+/- hits out of 1200 opportunities.

And you got 'a NUMBER' ??? Typical missile fighter puke ...

GUNS KILL !!!

 

[A4sForever]

A4s - Did you go through P'cola before or after the famous and tragic demise of MoH winner, Maj. Pless?

During --- I knew him from his regular, 'reserved' position at the end of the O'Club Bar ...

What is usually overlooked is that the good Major was shit-faced when he went roaring & crashing through the gate on his motorcycle & into the Bay ...

Unfortunately, the Major had a drinking problem, BIG time. He had his own demons. He essentially killed himself. It was only a matter of time, given the way he was living ...

 

[Catmando]

I think 'they' were running 50 rounds/pod a little before we got the dedicated MX on the gunsights (remember them -- WW2 vintage Mk8 gunsights [can't remember the Mod]); definitely NOT 'funsights' ...

While the major effort was being dedicated to making the sights 'work' ... the Ordies' figured out that the gun pods 'liked' a full belt (100 rounds) vice the 50 round belts they had been running to save $$$ and MX.

Soooooo ... w/ 'working' sights, more reliable guns, 2 X more .50 cal/hop (200 rounds total), and 6 shooting hops in the 10-hop syllabus if your guns didn't jam ... that's only 100+/- hits out of 1200 opportunities.

And you got 'a NUMBER' ??? Typical missile fighter puke ...

GUNS KILL !!!

Thanks for the "edit" from "NONE" to 'a NUMBER'... Hehe, not unseen by my figther pilot 20-10's. Maybe not a 100 hits, but a nice number with a bad gunsight. Besides, maybe I was so good that maybe they canx'ed the remaining syllabus flight for me.

Now, watch this....

Burner, vertical, hard right rudder, unload, lag pursuit, Fox-II on the scooter in the turn...... YeeeeeeHaaaaaaaaa! :icon_smil

 

[Catmando]

During --- I knew him from his regular, 'reserved' position at the end of the O'Club Bar ...

What is usually overlooked is that the good Major was shit-faced when he went roaring & crashing through the gate on his motorcycle & into the Bay ...

Unfortunately, the Major had a drinking problem, BIG time. He had his own demons. He essentially killed himself. It was only a matter of time, given the way he was living ...

Only knew him by reputation, which coincides exactly with what you say. It was said that he was indeed shit-faced and he tried to leap the drawbridge as it started to rise... and slammed into, instead of on top of the opposite side.

Perhaps a latter casualty of war. Who knows?

 

[BlkPny]

I was also there concurrent with Maj. Pless. I had a good friend who was in Pless's squadron in VN. When he arrived in-country, he announced his intention to win "the medal". My friend said he was dangerous to fly with, always rolling in from the copilot's side. He was death waiting to happen.

 

[BusyBee604]

Barin

I guess 'Ol BzB was too 'early' for VT-4 in 1958. Our final two phases in basic were Gunnery & CQ. We went from Whiting to Barin Field to finish these phases in the T-28, w/ FCLP at an outlying field in Foley, AL & Carqual on USS ANTIETAM (using paddles}. :bigeyes_1

Don't remember too much about gunnery except hits were hard to come by, and the IPs constantly screaming "Don't get sucked"! Barin was fun for a NAVCAD, away from P'cola, discipline was relaxed, the ACRAC was nice, with great liberty in nearby Mobile. Great times were had by all! arty_125
BzB

 

[A4sForever]

I guess 'Ol BzB was too 'early' for VT-4 in 1958. Our final two phases in basic were Gunnery & CQ. We went from Whiting to Barin Field to finish these phases in the T-28 ...

I think -- not sure, just 'think' -- that the GUN syllabus was dropped for Prop guys when SPADs were starting to be phased out middle to late 60s. I don't think the NAVAIRTRACOM T-28's had gun pods when I went through (again -- can't remember w/ any certainty) -- although they did have gun pods when flown by locals and their 'advisors' in Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, the P.I., and Thailand at the same time ...

I know the Prop CQ syllabus was still being flown out of Barin when I was there, but I'm fuzzy on any memory of T-28's doing GUNS out over the Gulf at the same time.

Side note: we had the 'GUN' syllabus in Advanced Jet (TA-4s) out over the Texas Gulf coast, but we just flew the pattern -- no 20mm loaded. The A-4 internal gun was a 'strafing' gun and had a 'whipping' action to better distribute 20mm onto Joe Gomer's forehead ... and it was because of that 'whip' that 'armed' GUN hops were not flown in the TA-4. Someone on the Staff was afraid the TRACTOR might get shot down in addition to the BANNER. Like they weren't worried about that in VT-4 w/ young skulls full of cottage cheese pressing the .50 cal trigger ... ???!!!

I think the TF-9s up at Chase still did bullets on banners, but I'm no expert on that subject.

Flying the GUN patter w/ no ammo ... what a fuckin' waste of time & especially -- effort !!! It's like practicin' bleeding !!!

 

[Catmando]

....

I think the TF-9s up at Chase still did bullets on banners, but I'm no expert on that subject.

I should be an expert since I was there, but I really don't remember. Maybe that's because (to your probable delight) I didn't put many/any holes in the banner.

But I can re-post my Zero-CEP letter again.

 

[A4sForever]

...But I can re-post my Zero-CEP letter again.

Haruuuuumph. I got a couple of those, too ... just no letter. I was robbed.