Officer Dynamics in a Flying Squadron

[ZomboNation]

I used to fly for another service, now I’m with a Legacy C-130 ANG unit.

With the downturn on flying hours given from on-high, morale need a pick-me-up, I started spinning up plans for “an event” to include the Pilots and Nav’s in the unit, where OBVIOUSLY no alcohol or fun, or any debauchery could occur… yeah, right…

This plot quickly got gunned down.

Reason: If the Officers were to have an event and not invite the enlisted folks, it would make them feel bad, and be thus be divisive.

Much of what occurs in the unit is done to ensure that none of the Enlisted Aircrew get their feelings hurt. I wondered what any of your experiences were on this, and what advice you might offer. Some of these Guard Officers act like they are guilty for being officers. Maybe this is just the difference between other services and the Guard, but it sure seems odd to me.

 

[ZomboNation]

The effect of what I described is that the Pilots have lost the ability to command. I understand "CRM" is important to maintain in the aircraft, but command by committee is another thing entirely...

 

[VMO4]

As a former enlisted aircrew member in an HML and a VMO, I expected a bottomless glass at the Marine Corps Ball, and other than that, to be left alone to do my job. I cannot imagine my feelings being hurt because the O's wanted to go have a kegger, I guess times have changed.

 

[wlawr005]

When I was an enlisted crew chief, we seldom had gatherings with the O's. Sometimes all aircrew would bowl together or play golf for NHA, but that's it. We frequently had enlisted gatherings where no officers were invited, but a few "in the know, good guy types" would come over in an unofficial capacity. The enlisted dudes seldom, if ever, went to O functions, especially if there might be anything above an O-3 there.

There are plenty of obvious reasons why SrA Johnson does not need to see Capt Jones shit faced.

My advice, encourage the senior enlisted to get their guys together in some capacity...and then lead by example. And remember...you do not talk about fight club.

 

[Steve Wilkins]

And remember...you do not talk about fight club.

No need to. Photos on Facebook tell the whole story.

 

[robav8r]

It was a good ride . . . .

 

[Gatordev]

A buddy of mine went from the Navy over to the AF (active component) and then to a Reserve AF unit as a SELRES. He described what you talk about at the AC squadron, but was even worse at the RC squadron. We certainly have our own problems, but it seems that the AF has a continuing problem understanding that it's okay that not everyone is equal in the organization's hierarchy.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

The E-6 and below had there own thing, the CPO's we had ours and the "O's" had their thing, I don't remember anyone I worked with including me ever being butt-hurt over being excluded, some people need to get over themselves and realize life isn't fair.

 

[Flash]

...Reason: If the Officers were to have an event and not invite the enlisted folks, it would make them feel bad, and be thus be divisive...Maybe this is just the difference between other services and the Guard, but it sure seems odd to me.

My first squadron had more enlisted aircrew than officers but when we had our officer reindeer games they were not invited, which they were more than okay with, and that is still the case. We did plenty of things as a crew on the road, even inviting the ground pounders occasionally , and had the standard command holiday party but the rest of the fun was split up by ranks generally with the E-6 and below having their fun, the Cheifs having theirs and the O's with their own. Hasn't changed and it has been the same in the case in my reserve units as well.

Having dealt with ANG folks in the past they are quite a bit different than the rest of the military in some respects and this may be one of those cases, it probably varies from unit to unit and state to state as well.

 

[SynixMan]

This thread is blowing my mind. I guess I figured all AF units (AD, Reserve, and Guard) all still had a working bar in their squadrons. Whoops.

As others have said, the fun is the Navy commands I've been at is separated into E-6 and below, Chiefs (E-7-E-9), and Officer pools. Everyone generally stays in their lane and there aren't hurt feelings. There are the occasional all hands functions like Christmas Party or command picnic, but most folks are on their better behavior.

In the last year, my Wardroom has had:
-Multiple Hail and Farewells
-Dining Out
-East Coast Helicopter Prom
-Wetting Down
-Greenlight
-Mess Meeting

And honestly, that's not much compared to other squadrons I've seen.

 

[ZomboNation]

We still do have a bar....

 

[zab1001]

This sounds like apples and oranges type service/force culture issues. If your command is so wrapped up in that level of nonsense, reserve a bar/restaurant, o3s, o4/05s (as junior officer deem fit) invited with a "recommended" cut of the bill for all gentlemen and ladies of the unit, no association officially with USG/squadron. "Meet up at xxxx for 'my friends' ." This isn't fucking rocket science.

 

[ZomboNation]

Ohh we do that. We did a Hail and Farewell (Mostly Hail) recently [O's invited only] and got ourselves ripped a new one from several O-5's on down to E-3's. Maybe this is a unit cultural thing, but I've had trouble wrapping my head around how to deal with it

 

[ZomboNation]

...But this is helping me realize that I'm not completely off my rocker in thinking this behavior isn't right

 

[samb]

Our hail and bails are E7 and up.