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OCS vs WOFT?

CavBubba

New Member
Gents,
I'm new to this site. Registered after reading some really funny misperceptions about Army warrant officers and Army aviation.

I flew both USAF and US Army so I have a pretty good feel for both worlds. That said, I've been out of the game for a few years. Passed the torch to the next generation, etc.

Army WO history. Prior to 1987, all Army WO's were appointed. This included W-1 thru W-4. CW2-CW4 were commissioned in 1987 to bring them into line with the other services. W-5 added to the mix in the 1990s.

Army WOs were managed by the Warrant Officer Branch and were part of the Warrant Office Corps until integrated into their respective branches (Aviation, Transportation, etc).

While the aviation warrant officer remains in the role of 'professional aviator'/technical expert, warrant officers often hold command positions. During my time, I saw CW3/CW4 platoon leaders and company/troop commanders. Usually these are interim positions due to shortages of LT/CPTs but some were permanent assignments.

As for aircraft, Army WOs fly both fixed wing and rotary wing aircraft. There is no exclusion of WOs from the fixed wing community. The reality is that the Army has a heck of a lot more helicopters than it does fixed wing aircraft so there just aren't that many fixed wing slots available in the aviation system. This applies to both commissioned officers and warrant officers. In the 1980s, it seemed like a lot of women aviators were put into the fixed wing community but that's just my two-cent opinion.

Internally, commissioned types are referred to as RLO's (roll-o's) or Real Live Officers. The biggest difference between the COs and WOs is that by the time a CO makes O-3/CPT, he can generally expect staff assignments to take him out of a frontline flying slot. WOs will generally fulltime pilots with additional staff duties -- sliding into Flight Standards (IP), maintenance, armament, or safety fields.
 

KBayDog

Well-Known Member
Welcome to the site! Sounds like you're out of the Army, but do you still fly? What did you fly in the USAF and USA?

We've got a few other USAF/USA-types here on here; it's awesome to hear their perspective on things. We all share the same airspace as we fight the same fight - I think you'll enjoy mixing it up with us.
 

CavBubba

New Member
Thanks for the welcome. I still fly but not commercially. Mostly light aerobatics in piston-powered aircraft. As for service flying, I flew A-10s and AH-64s.
 

phrogpilot73

Well-Known Member
My only question is why you went to the Army to fly helos, when you were already in the AF flying the coolest jet ever designed?
 

KBayDog

Well-Known Member
My only question is why you went...to fly helos...when you were already...flying the coolest jet...

32652954.jpg
 

CavBubba

New Member
My only question is why you went to the Army to fly helos, when you were already in the AF flying the coolest jet ever designed?

Well. At the time (early 1980s), the 'coolest jet ever designed' was viewed very differently. The AF really didn't want to do the CAS mission. I did a fair amount of work with Army attack helicopters (AH-1 Cobras) via JAAT (Joint Air Attack Team) and thought the helo's were better suited to the role. At the time, A-10 pilots probably had more in common with their Army attack helo counterparts than they did with the USAF fighter community. So, when my time was up, I signed on with the Army. I was very fortunate in that the AH-64 was just coming into service and I did well enough to get selected. Plus the AH-64 is the coolest attack helicopter ever designed.

When I left active duty, there were no AH-64 units in the northeast so I went ANG and back into A-10s for a few years.
 

Swanee

Cereal Killer
pilot
None
Contributor
Well. At the time (early 1980s), the 'coolest jet ever designed' was viewed very differently. The AF really didn't want to do the CAS mission. I did a fair amount of work with Army attack helicopters (AH-1 Cobras) via JAAT (Joint Air Attack Team) and thought the helo's were better suited to the role. At the time, A-10 pilots probably had more in common with their Army attack helo counterparts than they did with the USAF fighter community. So, when my time was up, I signed on with the Army. I was very fortunate in that the AH-64 was just coming into service and I did well enough to get selected. Plus the AH-64 is the coolest attack helicopter ever designed.

When I left active duty, there were no AH-64 units in the northeast so I went ANG and back into A-10s for a few years.


My old man flew A-10s with the Syracuse unit in the 80s. You weren't around that unit in that time frame were you?
 

CavBubba

New Member
No. I was never with the 174th. They traded their Hogs for F-16s pretty quickly and were out of them before the first Gulf War.
 

Swanee

Cereal Killer
pilot
None
Contributor
No. I was never with the 174th. They traded their Hogs for F-16s pretty quickly and were out of them before the first Gulf War.

Yep, my old man was there for that too. He actually started flying the A-37 with them; though he didn't stick around after they went to the predator. Can't say I blame him one bit.


Anyway, welcome to the site.
 

LFCFan

*Insert nerd wings here*
Well. At the time (early 1980s), the 'coolest jet ever designed' was viewed very differently. The AF really didn't want to do the CAS mission. I did a fair amount of work with Army attack helicopters (AH-1 Cobras) via JAAT (Joint Air Attack Team) and thought the helo's were better suited to the role. At the time, A-10 pilots probably had more in common with their Army attack helo counterparts than they did with the USAF fighter community. So, when my time was up, I signed on with the Army. I was very fortunate in that the AH-64 was just coming into service and I did well enough to get selected. Plus the AH-64 is the coolest attack helicopter ever designed.

When I left active duty, there were no AH-64 units in the northeast so I went ANG and back into A-10s for a few years.

IIRC, certain USAF generals kept trying to talk the Army or Marines into taking the A-10s off their hands. Or so I was told growing up. Fortunately now they are a more desirable assignment.

Also, someone get this guy some wings!
 

CavBubba

New Member
IMO, it felt like USAF would have loved to get rid of the A-10s (pre Gulf War 1, that is). The sticking point was always the money. The CAS budget is/was pretty substantial. Basically, Big Blue wanted to unload the Hogs and keep the money -- leaving the Army or USMC with aircraft but no additonal funding to operate them.
Mid-80s, there were all kinds of weak ideas being floated. The A-16 was one of them. Take an F-16 and paint it green. Add racks to carry a few small bombs and call it CAS-ready. The F-15E concept was also underway. A bit better. The mud-hen can carry a lot of bombs. The problem was that this was the back in the dumb-bomb days. As result, CAS was a low-and-slow thing. Tough to be accurate at 600kts with an unguided Mk82/84.
 

Swanee

Cereal Killer
pilot
None
Contributor
IMO, it felt like USAF would have loved to get rid of the A-10s (pre Gulf War 1, that is). The sticking point was always the money. The CAS budget is/was pretty substantial. Basically, Big Blue wanted to unload the Hogs and keep the money -- leaving the Army or USMC with aircraft but no additonal funding to operate them.
Mid-80s, there were all kinds of weak ideas being floated. The A-16 was one of them. Take an F-16 and paint it green. Add racks to carry a few small bombs and call it CAS-ready. The F-15E concept was also underway. A bit better. The mud-hen can carry a lot of bombs. The problem was that this was the back in the dumb-bomb days. As result, CAS was a low-and-slow thing. Tough to be accurate at 600kts with an unguided Mk82/84.


Along with the 30MM gun pod... I've heard some great stories about that POS...
 
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