OCS vs. DCO

[msuguy]

Just curious if anyone has applied for both OCS and DCO. I am an enlisted reservist with 3 years experience as an Intelligence Specialist. I'd like to go active duty, as the whole civilian career isn't paying much. However, my command has encouraged DCO for reserves. Can one apply for a DCO designator as your first choice, with OCS designators as second and third choices? Is there an extra board for DCO? My recruiter thinks I have a better chance at sticking with OCS. I thought I was competetive enough for DCO, but maybe I'm wrong? A little about me: 27 years old, GPA is 3.53, OAR 54, B.A. History. Thanks

 

[ray25017]

While the application is the same for both DCO and OCS, I doubt you can apply for both at the same time (as DCO and OCS recruiters are typically separate; the boards certainly are). I went through the DCO application process but then decided to switch over to working with an active duty recruiter to apply the OCS (aka the active) route. All in all, I'd say both processes are competitive. As someone in the DC area (and as someone that did multiple interviews with other DCO applicants seeking intel spots), I will say that most DCO applicants (here in DC at least) appeared to use intel DCO as a stepping stone. As an example, I interviewed with six others. Only two of us were prior service. Three of the six worked for someone on the hill. All six of us worked for some government agency. Certainly, adding Navy Intel Officer to the resume had to be on their list of motivations (as opposed to many OCS applicants who, I believe, are more inspired by the thought of becoming a Naval Officer). Just my observation, though...

Another opinion:
If you can't tell, I don't think anyone should get gold bars that without completing OCS (outside of what I consider to be the highly-skilled fields: medical, legal, or religious personnel). After seeing some of the intel DCO applicants and knowing that some will, one day, be commissioned with no training (except the 2-week 'knife and fork' school that follows), I thought -- no thanks... I'll go through Newport like I did Parris Island (I was a Marine Staff Sergeant) and learn what it really means to be a Naval Officer. Don't get me wrong, the reserves are an extremely critical component... I just think intel or HR or Supply (or any of the other 'non-licensed' field) DCOs should spend 12+ weeks in Newport, particularly those that haven't served a day in uniform.

As for you, it sounds like a no-brainer... Go active. You don't speak highly of your civilian job and you sound like you want an active commission. Put down 1630 in your selection and get to applying... I believe there's a board in January -- plenty of time to get seen by the board.

Oh BTW, if you do go DCO, you can serve with a Bush: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0307/3251.html

I'm sure he joined to serve the nation (as opposed to serving his own future political aspirations). :icon_lol:

 

[msuguy]

I agree with your ideas on DCO. I really don't think non-prior service applicants should be accepted into a 2 week officer program. Anyway, I will probably do what you did and go for the active duty program, and get a real paycheck. Thanks for the insight!

 

[das]

The whole purpose of DCO/DIRCOM is to enable the Navy to take professionals with clear expertise in their fields, who also already have demonstrated leadership, management, and related experience.

In other words -- and I'm not saying this is always the case -- a DCO applicant should already be close to a place where an OCS graduate is; thus, the two week "knife and fork" school is really about taking someone who is already a professional and a proven leader and teaching them "this is the mechanics of how it's done in the Navy". DCOIC is by no means designed to be a mini-OCS.

I imagine many people will find a million ways to take this wrong. I am not saying ANYTHING negative about OCS here; in fact, the exact opposite. But many DCO applicants have years of experience as proven managers and leaders, and significant expertise in their fields.

Yes, there are many reasons why DCOIC for someone who is non-prior-service is too short. But, mobilization/deployment aside, many DCO applicants wouldn't apply if they had a 12 week school. In fact, it's part of the reason why the IW community is driving DCO to zero: there is no DWE format IW school (like there is for Intel and other communities), so IW DCO applicants must commit to the 11-week IWBC in Pensacola.

The DCO process is a valuable tool for bringing critical expertise and experienced leaders/managers into the reserve force.

That said, I'm sure some people are using it as a stepping stone or resume fodder. As for me, I'm doing it because I want the opportunity to serve my nation in a very narrow field, but I don't want to leave a rewarding civilian job I have had for 15 years, nor do I want to relocate my family to within 30 miles of the flagpole in DC. The DCO program enables me to contribute my skills and aptitudes to a greater good, and when the chance to mobilize/deploy comes, I welcome it. And I don't plan to use it as a stepping stone; I plan to serve until I retire, as long as the Navy will have me.

 

[ray25017]

QUOTE: The whole purpose of DCO/DIRCOM is to enable the Navy to take professionals with clear expertise in their fields

Not always true. That was my original point.

In the medical, legal, religious fields -- sure. But there is no requirement to have intel experience (certainly not 'expertise') to become a 1635. Hell, I didn't have any intel experience and, according to the OR, received near-perfect interviews from 4 CAPTs and a recommendation from the Regional Intel Program Officer (From my prior conversations with my fellow applicants at that time, none of the 6 DCO applicants that interviewed with me had intel experience and I know that all but 1 have been selected). That's were my gripe is... Taking someone off the street, with no prior service, no prior intel experience, and pinning them an Ensign. Sure, they do a year or so of weekends to learn intel. But, as far as possessing the 'can do' attitude a junior officer in any service should have, where would this come from? The two week DCOIC course? I'm skeptical.

Like you said, "The DCO process is a valuable tool for bringing critical expertise and experienced leaders/managers into the reserve force". And, while I wholly support that statement, I'm still skeptical of a process that takes a 20-something civilian with no experience (again, no experience in the field is required for selection) and lets them wear gold bars once a month (or, after a year or so of weekends, in a war zone).

Doctors. Lawyers. Ministers. To me, they're different... I'm speaking solely for fields that don't require experience to be accepted (such as the ever-popular intel, IW, HR, or supply).

You make some good points, but it's important to remember that leadership and expertise are simply not required. Some basic education, a good ASTB, and some great interviews with movers and shakers are...

 

[das]

Your points are well taken, but look at the flip side: someone who is non-prior-service with no Intel experience going OCS, for example.

That person also gets no Intel training before they get to pin on the gold bars, and the major difference is that they're going active duty right away and will finish the same Intel training curriculum sooner. Granted, they will also be immediately immersed in the Navy environment, and there is no question that the landscape is different for someone coming non-prior into DCO vs OCS.

However, I would also argue that DCO for some of these same communities is naturally more competitive compared against OCS, if not only for the sheer difference in numbers of slots available. OCS has boards every month for (nearly) every one of these communities; some DCO communities may only have one board, sometimes even one billet in an entire fiscal year! In that case, I think we can agree that the person they select is going to be (or at least appear to be) eminently qualified.

Personally, I think DCO -- especially non-prior-service -- could stand to have more than a two week indoctrination. Perhaps there could be a separate track for non-prior-service. I also will stipulate that some people getting accepted into various DCO communities aren't already experts in their field, but may still have proven management/leadership experience, and many of these people are typically in their late 20s or early 30s.

Now from a practical standpoint, maybe some of the DCO communities with more billets don't end up with people with tons of leadership experience and expertise in the field. However, I'd argue that those populations are still statistically at least as good as, if not better than, populations from which OCS is selecting for the same communities. Don't get me wrong; I'm not saying anything negative about OCS selectees for these same communities; only that it's a numbers game. I.e., what I am saying here is that, on the whole, if someone is competitive and/or selected for a DCO community, I would argue that they are virtually guaranteed of getting selected via OCS for that same community.

So what's the difference? That those going active duty go through OCS, and then both groups end up going through the same training? It seems to me that, aside from the active vs. reserve path, actually going through OCS is the only real difference before pinning on the bars (and for those not familiar with DCO, you don't even go to DCOIC before getting commissioned).

So, I guess what I'd ask is this: assuming the candidates coming in via OCS or DCO are high quality in general, can 12 weeks at OCS really "teach leadership" to everyone who goes through it, any more than the DCO process attempts to take people with practical organizational experience (preferably including at least management/supervisory roles, if not "leadership", which I admit is a different beast entirely)?

Maybe it's just fair to say that OCS and DCO are serving different needs of the Navy. ;-)

 

[ray25017]

I agree with you, I think... on just about everything

Actually, I have a question for you (or anyone)... Can you go from a DIRCOM (say 3 years down the road) to full-blown active (not an IA billet). I'm just curious if that can be done? I know you can go from active to reserve (post-commitment, of course).

Das, I take it you're an IW guy, right? Are you in already or still in the process?

 

[das]

You can indeed go from DCO -> active duty, but a billet needs to be available to do so. In fact, this last FY a DCO IW reservist applied for, and got, a recall to indefinite active duty. But a slot was available in the community to do that. Nonetheless, it is possible.

I'm in the midst of the DCO process for the Intel, IW, and IP communities. Hurry up and wait.

 

[msuguy]

You both make good points. I understand there are less DCO slots, and you should (ideally) have expertise in the area already, perhaps more than an OCS applicant. I think direct commissions were initially designed to attract certain professionals (Nurses, Dentists, Doctors, etc.) to the reserves with the understanding that most of these people would be reluctant to go through regular OCS. At some point, DCO expanded into different fields. I guess it comes down to whether you want to serve active duty or reserves.

 

[Thisguy]

I didn't bother reading the whole back and forth, but to the OP, go OCS if you want to be active duty, plain and simple.

Your command is encouraging DCO in the reserves, because they're a reserve unit. In other words: biased.

 

[msuguy]

I didn't bother reading the whole back and forth, but to the OP, go OCS if you want to be active duty, plain and simple.

Your command is encouraging DCO in the reserves, because they're a reserve unit. In other words: biased.

That's pretty much it, in a nutshell. OCS it is

 

[blizzy]

So what is DCO??

 

[das]

So what is DCO??

DCO or DIRCOM stands for Direct Commission Officer. It's a method the Navy (and other services) can take certain candidates, including civilians, into various officer communities, usually in the reserves. Often these are for things like doctors, nurses, lawyers, chaplains, etc., but also could be for other areas like supply, intel, HR, and so on. The idea is that it's a way for the Navy to get folks with specialized expertise or experience into the Navy without having to go through OCS, be in active duty status, etc.