OCS 08JUL2024 SNA/SNFO BOARD

[Paknam141]

So both of you are implying there is absolutely nothing the aviation community can do now/soon to improve retention. So they're SOL for the next 10+ years?

Accession requirements are driven by the need for O-1 and O-2s, in this case flight school (as what the article mentioned). When flight school was significantly backed a few years back, the accession numbers went down - regardless of what retention numbers were. Now that the flight school pipeline is opening/continues to open - that allows for the opportunity to flow more O-1s/ENS in from the commissioning sources.

Additionally, on the OCS front, they are the only accession source that can support shortfalls from Navy ROTC and USNA. If a Midshipman, who is service assigned aviation, drops (for a variety of reasons such as medical, legal, or just didn't want to commission), they cannot be replaced because all other Midshipmen already have their service assignment. So, that is where Navy Recruiting Command comes in to make up for the loss.

For retention, both the community and big Navy CAN improve retention for a variety of things, such as bonuses or offering more career flexibility. Additionally, for gapped department head billets, they can be filled from the reserve side, which I have seen, in which a qualified reserve naval aviator comes back on active duty to cover the gap.

I understand the Idea of more career flexibility and bonuses but they are competing with the corporate world of aviation which is cake compared to military flying. So long as the member is getting out to continue flying he can expect a signing bonus similar to a Nuke Accession and upgrade to captain in less time than it takes to make LTJG. Companies like JSX offering 100k a year plus a 50k signing bonus are hard to compete with. Then a guaranteed upgrade to captain which comes with yet another bonus and pay raise.

 

[Paknam141]

MEPS doesn’t grant waivers, they provide a recommendation to navy recruiting command (and fellow military services) who will review and decide on a service related waiver. For officer applicants navy recruiting command uses medical standards for officer and will defer specific special duty requirements (aviation, NSW, submarine duty, etc.) to the applicable medical decision authorities (NAMI, etc.).

I'm not making an argument on who issues the waiver. I'm answering the question for all of the Aviators and some Nuke individuals who come to OCS under the impression they are ok to fly with the waivers they are granted after going to MEPS(which for 99% of the is not true). The entire process has to be re-done at OCS for flight and nuke physical requirements. The flight takes significantly longer due to the information changing hands multiple times and from a needlessly complicated process. For Nukes, the process is quicker and normally graduates on time because for some reason the UMO doc is allowed to write and submit his waivers. Unlike the flight doc here who has to compile all the appointments and results to create a report for NAMI to approve or NPQ.

 

[23brooks23]

I understand the Idea of more career flexibility and bonuses but they are competing with the corporate world of aviation which is cake compared to military flying. So long as the member is getting out to continue flying he can expect a signing bonus similar to a Nuke Accession and upgrade to captain in less time than it takes to make LTJG. Companies like JSX offering 100k a year plus a 50k signing bonus are hard to compete with. Then a guaranteed upgrade to captain which comes with yet another bonus and pay raise.

Most major airlines are offering programs for military aviators to come straight on. Won’t even have to go to a Jsx or regional.

 

[Paknam141]

Most major airlines are offering programs for military aviators to come straight on. Won’t even have to go to a Jsx or regional.

even better last I checked was last year and starting FO pay at 121 was like 115k minimum guarantee. The stigma around being a "bus driver" in the military is wild. When the engines shut off at your home base you're off, that means no secondary billet or other responsibilities. 121 life is cake compared to mil flying.

 

[23brooks23]

even better last I checked was last year and starting FO pay at 121 was like 115k minimum guarantee. The stigma around being a "bus driver" in the military is wild. When the engines shut off at your home base you're off, that means no secondary billet or other responsibilities. 121 life is cake compared to mil flying.

Yeah kinda the pay is weird bec you get paid hourly of flying and for the first couple months you can be sitting on reserves getting the minimum pay which is 75 hours. But yes in general the pay is really good and the lifestyle is really chill compared to military

 

[exNavyOffRec]

I'm not making an argument on who issues the waiver. I'm answering the question for all of the Aviators and some Nuke individuals who come to OCS under the impression they are ok to fly with the waivers they are granted after going to MEPS(which for 99% of the is not true). The entire process has to be re-done at OCS for flight and nuke physical requirements. The flight takes significantly longer due to the information changing hands multiple times and from a needlessly complicated process. For Nukes, the process is quicker and normally graduates on time because for some reason the UMO doc is allowed to write and submit his waivers. Unlike the flight doc here who has to compile all the appointments and results to create a report for NAMI to approve or NPQ.

This is the fault of their recruiters not explaining the process correctly or at all.

 

[Paknam141]

This is the fault of their recruiters not explaining the process correctly or at all.

Maybe, but I do believe the recruiters are doing their best to prepare you. I felt mine did the best they could and to be fair to the recruiters the information for OCS is so spotty. The program has changed so much in just the 13+ weeks I've been here. It's hard enough to keep track of it while you're here. OCS in terms of what is happening is nearly impossible to know until you get here and continues to change every class that comes through. I do not blame the recruiters at all due to the massive packets they already have to put together knowing every nuance of each designator would be the lowest of my priorities. The packet they create and its accuracy is what is the primary means of getting gained at OCS promptly which affects how quickly you get a CAC card. As well as your ability to study and access needed materials to progress in the program. I blame OCS for not standardizing and then disseminating that information properly or well enough to the places where it's needed most.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Maybe, but I do believe the recruiters are doing their best to prepare you. I felt mine did the best they could and to be fair to the recruiters the information for OCS is so spotty. The program has changed so much in just the 13+ weeks I've been here. It's hard enough to keep track of it while you're here. OCS in terms of what is happening is nearly impossible to know until you get here and continues to change every class that comes through. I do not blame the recruiters at all due to the massive packets they already have to put together knowing every nuance of each designator would be the lowest of my priorities. The packet they create and its accuracy is what is the primary means of getting gained at OCS promptly which affects how quickly you get a CAC card. As well as your ability to study and access needed materials to progress in the program. I blame OCS for not standardizing and then disseminating that information properly or well enough to the places where it's needed most.

The MEPS process has been the same for decades, every OR should know MEPS doesn't PQ officers and that N33 doesn't qualify aviation or nukes. The specific process at OCS I wouldn't expect them to know, but up to that point they should. If an aviation applicant goes to OCS thinking they are fully cleared that is a failure of the recruiter.

 

[Paknam141]

Wanted to add this as I was asked this via direct message and I'm not at all shy about my medical process if it helps people get out of Newport on time and to Pensacola.

Here is a history of my ADHD. I was doing badly in college and was forced by my parents to take the full battery test. low point in my life for sure, but I was diagnosed and prescribed Adderall in my sophomore year of college. Took the medication from May till December of the the year and stopped taking it all altogether afterward in 2022 ish.

I applied to the Navy after getting my degree in 2023 and was picked up in March of 2024. I was required to get a waiver which they asked for these documents. College transcript, written statements of 504 plans from the college, prescription records, and letters from an employer and college professor. Went to MEPS in January and asked me in the interview about the prescription it flagged it on my medical record. I told the doctor I had honestly forgotten about taking the meds and the doctor didn't seem to be too upset. The doctor there informed me I was DQ'd pending waiver review. I was granted the waiver in late February that year.

Upon showing up at OCS and after my flight physical I was informed the waiver granted at MEPS was just for Enlistment. Meaning just to be able to show up for OCS and not for flight qualification. This is the same for all waivers granted as far as I understand it. Unless the waiver is just not of concern.

After this, I was told I had to undergo a psych evaluation by a military doctor and then wait for my new flight-specific waiver to be approved currently what I'm waiting on. They didn't send me to this doctor till after I completed the program on AUG 2nd due to what they are saying is "backed up processing". The information they ask you for is the same except they want a letter from your prescribing doctor saying you're all good to go. Sadly I don't have a lot of information on how many get approved or what they are looking for but from what I've seen most med DQs are from eyes or underlying serious conditions. The test is simple and tries to show a lack of focus and memory recall you can look up how the test is given online or if you've taken one of these tests they are very similar and in my opinion easier.

I hope this helped.

Update to progress,
I received a call from the doctor in Annapolis about how I performed on my testing. She reviewed what the battery tested on; short-term memory recall, spatial perception, pattern recognition, mental math, and language comprehension. I scored highest on the language section, quite a bit above average, math was slightly below average(I use scratch paper all the time and normally struggle with mental math OAR 52), and average in all other metrics. She told me her report would reflect no signs of ADHD and sent the information to the medical liaison today 23AUG. Now starts the waiting process. If I were to get DQ'd now I going to assume it would be for my hearing. I have a large asymmetry between my left ear and right ear but the hearing loss is within requirements for flight. My current assumed wait time is based on other processing speeds and the recent issues over here with commissioning documents is 3-4 weeks on the conservative side. I will update you as more information comes through.

As always study your Bravo knowledge and bring a sleeping bag that is the best gouge I have for the first 3 weeks. Remember you have a golden ticket being designated as an aviator that very few would even dream of achieving.