USNMark
Member
ChunksJR said:
Two insightful posts. Unfortunately, in addition to the world, they pertain to the American people, too.
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Obama plans quick move on Gitmo
- Thread starter bubblehead
- Start date
Two insightful posts. Unfortunately, in addition to the world, they pertain to the American people, too.
What a petty, immature sentiment. The rest of the world would laugh at us as we became a second-rate nation and economy, unable to fund a military that could **ck** anything.
zoomie08
Fast, Neat, Average...
I know I'll get all kinds of crap for this, but...
I think its great that Gitmo is going to be closed. I believe the imprisonment of these guys without a trail to be unconstitutional (and so does the Supreme Court). It seems in this day and age we are so quick to conveniently go around the Constitution.
I am not at all saying the dudes down there aren't dangerous and should be released. They are undoubtedly bad dudes who need to be in prison. So, once Gitmo is closed, we should try these guys with fair and speedy trials and then lock them up for a looooooong time. I am quite aware of the fact that this is much easier said than done due to the difficulties in logistics, cost, and finding evidence/witnesses.
And, whoever said if we release them it is going to bite us in the @ss is right. Unfortunately, I think we need to abide by the law and if they aren't found guilty in their trials, let them go.
Let the criticism begin...
I think its great that Gitmo is going to be closed. I believe the imprisonment of these guys without a trail to be unconstitutional (and so does the Supreme Court). It seems in this day and age we are so quick to conveniently go around the Constitution.
I am not at all saying the dudes down there aren't dangerous and should be released. They are undoubtedly bad dudes who need to be in prison. So, once Gitmo is closed, we should try these guys with fair and speedy trials and then lock them up for a looooooong time. I am quite aware of the fact that this is much easier said than done due to the difficulties in logistics, cost, and finding evidence/witnesses.
And, whoever said if we release them it is going to bite us in the @ss is right. Unfortunately, I think we need to abide by the law and if they aren't found guilty in their trials, let them go.
Let the criticism begin...
No crap...you're entitled to your opinion.
One comment to the above statement: We legitimize the terrorists and what they represent when we extend them the same rights as Americans. As long as a threat exists, I don't care what we have to do to keep them as far away from "downrange of Americans in Afghanistan" as possible. And yes, Afghanistan...that's the only detainees here, POWs from Enduring Freedom.
But, the nice part of being an American Servant...I'll do what my Chain-of-Command decides...and proudly.
So close it, keep it open, whatever. I'll tell you one thing: the expense of keeping GITMO open (and we're just talking detainees here, GITMO itself will never close) is VERY VERY Expensive.
zoomie08
Fast, Neat, Average...
I appreciate the open mind.
And, I think treating them as if they were Americans only helps us maintain the moral high ground. We can say, "We know you are the absolute scum of the earth that supports the killing of women and children. But, being the most tolerant, most free, most democratic, and most law abiding country in the world, we will give you your chance in court without the deck being stacked against you." That, in my eyes, is the ultimate slap in the face to the terrorists. To be ourselves and stick to our distinctly American roots and traditions no matter what they try to do to us. It shows them that we aren't afraid and we won't be pushed around.
It's a shame we didn't kill these dudes when they were fighting in Afghanistan when we had the chance.
And, I think treating them as if they were Americans only helps us maintain the moral high ground. We can say, "We know you are the absolute scum of the earth that supports the killing of women and children. But, being the most tolerant, most free, most democratic, and most law abiding country in the world, we will give you your chance in court without the deck being stacked against you." That, in my eyes, is the ultimate slap in the face to the terrorists. To be ourselves and stick to our distinctly American roots and traditions no matter what they try to do to us. It shows them that we aren't afraid and we won't be pushed around.
It's a shame we didn't kill these dudes when they were fighting in Afghanistan when we had the chance.
Fair and speedy trials? When did they become citizens and subject to the Bill of Rights? Oh that's right they didn't. Their classification as an enemy combatant and what that entails is the issue. Because the classification is new and from my point of view seems to be misunderstood.
I don't necessarily agree with indefinite imprisonment on the basis of little evidence of them being dangerous, but then I don't have all the intelligence regarding these prisoners and cannot make an educated decision on whether their imprisonment is advisable.
Why do I oppose some of the indefinite imprisonment? Because my tax dollars are being used to imprison them. Do I think some of them need to be there? You bet. But to say that it's unconstitutional is what in my opinion is the Supreme Court play judge and lawmaker all-in-one.
The fact of the matter is that it IS ALWAYS better to be safe than sorry when dealing with potential terrorists.
Because if you like Bob the Terrorist go free and he gets his hands on some radioactive materials and does his dirty bomb deed of the day in LA then you've got some issues. I don't work at GITMO and don't propose that I am by any means an expert but to me it doesn't take a lot of sense to understand why these people are being detained.
It's easy to say "Give them a trial," when you don't have even a half a percent of the intelligence regarding their detainment.
fastnumber15
TailSpin--classic low level
immature....yes...would I make a good economist or president...no. Still...arent they already laughing...or is that just the media giving people the perception of them laughing at us???????
No one cares. If it's not this it's "why didn't they stop Gaza?" or "why didn't they prevent Rwanda?" No one cares.
Now I'm confused...you're saying we should have killed them on the battlefield (as in when we had them in custody after disarming them) which would be a war crime, but also arguing for constitutional rights?
Sounds like you are a great argument FOR GITMO...keep them in limbo as detainees in a War, until we figure out the best way to handle them. Ask yourself : "Are we at war?" I think that the answer to that is the same answer "Can we keep them at GITMO?"
I think that even most of the Anti-War hardcores can say that Afghanistan was legitimate...and if it is indeed a legitamate war, then we can keep POWs without constitutional rights until the cessession of hostilities and the guarentee that American Servicemen are safe...but that's just MHO.
Agree, everyone is entitled.
Scary, and an officer and on our side as well.
Once found not guilty, and my opinion is that most well be found not guilty after providing them with the best defense we taxpayers can afford. Then what? Let them go into the streets of New York? Frisco? Doubtful that we will find any country willing to accept them.
Well, one place it would benefit us...it'd be a whole HELLUVA lot cheaper.
The problem is, however, putting them in American Jails...talk about inhumane treatment
...you think they'd have a chance in hell in a general population? No, so we'd be continuing to detain them, only in solitary confinement...which again is LESS humane and unAmerican.Part of the reason that we have "free" detainees here (google "Chinese detainee") is that we know that this is the safest place for them!
The problem is, however, putting them in American Jails...talk about inhumane treatment
Wait, is that the official rational for not putting them in our prison system, or just your logical one?
The way I read that statement I took it as he meant too bad they didnt die in combat while shooting at Americans. That way, no prisoners, no constitutional arguments, etc...
Problem is, I'd assume we didnt capture every single person in battle. I'd guess that some doors were kicked down and people taken in. Im all for these guys getting killed (if they are who they appear to be) but thats not the way to do it.
...Just my interpretation of what was written
The courts are going to declare almost all the evidence against these guys as invalid on technicalities. Maintaining the moral high ground at the cost of the innocent victims of their future terrorist activities is not worth it.
If they're to receive trials in civilian courts, then they can damn well stay with the general population in civilian prisons while they await those trials. They want out of Gitmo and into the court system....let them out....they'll quickly wish they were back.
Pure logic there...but pretty damn good logic if I damn do say so my damn self.