NTSB Seeks On-Aircraft Birdstrike Solutions

[Ken_gone_flying]

The NTSB is focusing on pulse lights for deterring birds from aircraft flight paths.

I wonder why they don't come up with a FOD screen (as part of the engine) for turbofan aircraft. They have to be able to develop a screen that could prevent birds from FOD'ing out the engines in flight, yet not restrict enough airflow to decrease engine performance. Something that would look like and serve the same purpose as FOD screens that we use in the navy. (for test cell runs)


http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gene...On-Aircraft Birdstrike Solutions&channel=comm

 

[Brett327]

The NTSB is focusing on pulse lights for deterring birds from aircraft flight paths.

I wonder why they don't come up with a FOD screen (as part of the engine) for turbofan aircraft. They have to be able to develop a screen that could prevent birds from FOD'ing out the engines in flight, yet not restrict enough airflow to decrease engine performance. Something that would look like and serve the same purpose as FOD screens that we use in the navy. (for test cell runs)


http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gene...On-Aircraft Birdstrike Solutions&channel=comm

Answer: Probably wouldn't work. I can't imagine any screen material that would withstand a bird strike at 200+ KTS. FOD screens are great for ground turns, but even small birds will go right through the aluminum skin of the aircraft and even the windscreen at higher speeds. I'm no engineer, but a bird is probably going to go right through any kind of screen you could put over the engine intake.

Brett

 

[jfulginiti]

Answer: Probably wouldn't work. I can't imagine any screen material that would withstand a bird strike at 200+ KTS. FOD screens are great for ground turns, but even small birds will go right through the aluminum skin of the aircraft and even the windscreen at higher speeds. I'm no engineer, but a bird is probably going to go right through any kind of screen you could put over the engine intake.

Brett

And it would screw up the airflow going into the engine.

 

[Ken_gone_flying]

And it would screw up the airflow going into the engine.

They have to be able to develop a screen that could prevent birds from FOD'ing out the engines in flight, yet not restrict enough airflow to decrease engine performance.

 

[usmc_stud]

I think if someone is actually able to develop a tool to scare birds away from aircraft they deserve the Nobel prize. A FOD screen (which does exist on many turbofans) can only do so much. On impact a bird would simply break apart and still disrupt the engine. And as was said already, a birdstrike on any part of the plane can cause serious damage depending on the bird and the aircraft. If something as simple as a flashing light can prevent birdstrikes then lets buy it (however, the article doesn't sound like the prototype is very promising...yet).

 

[jtmedli]

Answer: Probably wouldn't work. I can't imagine any screen material that would withstand a bird strike at 200+ KTS. FOD screens are great for ground turns, but even small birds will go right through the aluminum skin of the aircraft and even the windscreen at higher speeds. I'm no engineer, but a bird is probably going to go right through any kind of screen you could put over the engine intake.

Brett

I'm going to have to agree with you here. A 2lb bird going 200 knots (intercept speed) has enough Kinetic energy to do some serious damage. Being an Engineer I could crunch the numbers but I'd rather not. Same concept as a tornado putting a stick through a brick wall. Enough energy and you'll win every time.

 

[AJTranny]

I would think another concern may be the screen itself becoming FOD and making a bad day worse.

 

[Brett327]

I'm going to have to agree with you here. A 2lb bird going 200 knots (intercept speed) has enough Kinetic energy to do some serious damage. Being an Engineer I could crunch the numbers but I'd rather not. Same concept as a tornado putting a stick through a brick wall. Enough energy and you'll win every time.

A jet doing 500+ KTS is going >1000 FPS, faster than many bullets. You just can't build a bullet-proof screen. If it were possible, it would already have been done.

Brett

 

[Carlos Caliente]

I would think another concern may be the screen itself becoming FOD and making a bad day worse.

There it is...there it is.

 

[eddie]

airsoft CIWS

 

[BENDER]

I had this conversation with a buddy of mine today... same questions and conclusions. However, I am optimistic about the science of nano fibers, and maybe a cone shaped structured screen (think SR-71) to deflect a bird away rather then stop it may work on commercial airliners. ? So maybe in the near future.

 

[Brett327]

I had this conversation with a buddy of mine today... same questions and conclusions. However, I am optimistic about the science of nano fibers, and maybe a cone shaped structured screen (think SR-71) to deflect a bird away rather then stop it may work on commercial airliners. ? So maybe in the near future.

Those big high bypass engines probably aren't going to tolerate anything of the sort.

Brett

 

[jtmedli]

A jet doing 500+ KTS is going >1000 FPS, faster than many bullets. You just can't build a bullet-proof screen. If it were possible, it would already have been done.

Brett

Sir, I was agreeing with you. You're exactly right. At 500 knots a birdie is going F-up just about anything you can put in front of it. It just turns into a feathered speeding bullet.

 

[mmx1]

What sort of a FOD screen would be tougher and do a better job than the high-bypass fans themselves? That's what shreds most small birds and slings the slurry outward toward the bypass air and away from the gas generator. Ding up/bend the high-bypass fans and you'll still get some useful thrust. Crap out your combustor wall or turbine blades, and you've got some hurt coming.

According to the Vanity Fair article on Cactus 1549, of the 12,000 cases of reported bird strikes on engines between 1990 and 2007, 2/3rds caused no damage, most of the remaining produced useful thrust, and only 312 were completely destroyed.

http://www.vanityfair.com/style/features/2009/06/us_airways200906?currentPage=3

This is about as silly as a suggestion I heard recently from a stud to put a parachute (Cirrus style) on all fleet helicopters so we have an alternative in case of transmission/masthead failure.

 

[scoolbubba]

Screens are an instant ice cube tray if they aren't heated. Without anti-ice, a screen ruins airflow the second you fly into visible moisture. One more thing to break and ruin your day.