NSW Standardizing on Glock 19

[Gatordev]

In my experience it takes more training to reliably take off a safety to fire and then re-engage after fire under stress then to simply keeping your damned finger off the trigger until the decision to fire.

But it's not about being proficient and effective, it's about being safe. If we can have a weapon with a safety AND keep your finger off the trigger, that's twice as safe! Plus we've saved money not having to shoot more in order to actually be proficient with the weapon.

Wink, next you're going to tell me we should expand base ranges so there can be more throughput, thereby allowing for more proficiency. I think we've had enough of your crazy talk.

 

[nittany03]

But it's not about being proficient and effective, it's about being safe. If we can have a weapon with a safety AND keep your finger off the trigger, that's twice as safe! Plus we've saved money not having to shoot more in order to actually be proficient with the weapon.

Wink, next you're going to tell me we should expand base ranges so there can be more throughput, thereby allowing for more proficiency. I think we've had enough of your crazy talk.

Yeah, pretty soon you'll have aircrew who are actually allowed to put a mag in their pistols . . . SAFETY VIOLATOR!

 

[Pags]

Yeah, pretty soon you'll have aircrew who are actually allowed to put a mag in their pistols . . . SAFETY VIOLATOR!

Bullets are a FOD hazard.

 

[ChuckMK23]

The outdated tradition of "manual safety" has jumped the shark - I see no problems with a Sailor, Airman, Marine, Soldier carrying a Glock in condition 1 - without asking for more range time and training beyond what troops get for the M9. I'm a gun guy, an expert and competitive shooter and have trained many many newbies on modern striker fired pistols. It's not a big deal.

So your average Sailor carrying a Glock 19 on shipboard roving patrol, in condition 1 - no problem. Same for Shore Patrol. Same for aircrew and pilots - although I rarely see a reason to chamber a round as aircrew/pilots unless in extremis.

I think the G19 has a real shot, ahead of the G17 , as being our next service pistol. Very pleased to see .40 S&W and .45 ACP falling out of favor and laws of physics prevailing.

 

[Flash]

In my experience it takes more training to reliably take off a safety to fire and then re-engage after fire under stress then to simply keeping your damned finger off the trigger until the decision to fire.

...So your average Sailor carrying a Glock 19 on shipboard roving patrol, in condition 1 - no problem...

You all haven't had the pleasure of seeing 'average' sailors do 'Narmy' training, it was an eye opening experience. For one reserve O-5/6 VAW type the end result was shooting himself in the foot. Of course a CO or CAG shooting a ready room chair doesn't help either....

But it's not about being proficient and effective, it's about being safe. If we can have a weapon with a safety AND keep your finger off the trigger, that's twice as safe! Plus we've saved money not having to shoot more in order to actually be proficient with the weapon.

Yup, I am pretty sure that is just what big Navy is thinking.

 

[danpass]

Revolvers were carried for some time weren't they? No safety on those. No extinction level events as a result right?

I treat my semis the same as I do my revolvers, no boogerhook on the trigger until ready to fire.

I have a G19 now, had a Browning HiPower once as well (looking for another), but if forced to choose I would go with the BHP. Much easier (for me) to clean the target with a BHP than a G19.

 

[wink]

The Brownimg HiPower is a single action though. You carry that cocked it damn well better be locked. To be safe with a single action pistol you need to train for the extra step of taking off the safety. Striker fire, DA/SA, I never carry with a safety on even if equipped.

The point about revolvers was good. That was my day. All aircrew .38s .

 

[Gatordev]

Guys, if you think my two previous posts were about anything other than mocking the Navy's training program, I recommend you send the sarcasm meter off to METCAL.

That said, SA, DA, SA/DA, or striker-fired, people will find a way to ND. Unfortunately, it's not an uncommon event, be it with M9s or M11s.

 

[ChuckMK23]

Guys, if you think my two previous posts were about anything other than mocking the Navy's training program, I recommend you send the sarcasm meter off to METCAL.

That said, SA, DA, SA/DA, or striker-fired, people will find a way to ND. Unfortunately, it's not an uncommon event, be it with M9s or M11s.

We know, we know!!

All AD's have root cause in one of the 4 rules being busted It's a fact of life when carrying a loaded weapon for defense or duty. It's something you just accept but never give up on.

I'm disappointed S&W was removed from contention with the M&P - it would have been nice to see a home grown design. But we are a global business culture and a global procurement culture - the "buy American" thing is passé. Globalization is a real thing now.

 

[wink]

Guys, if you think my two previous posts were about anything other than mocking the Navy's training program, I recommend you send the sarcasm meter off to METCAL.

That said, SA, DA, SA/DA, or striker-fired, people will find a way to ND. Unfortunately, it's not an uncommon event, be it with M9s or M11s.

I know what's in your safe .

 

[Gatordev]

I know what's in your safe .

Only love and unicorn farts. It's glorious.

 

[Machine]

although I rarely see a reason to chamber a round as aircrew/pilots unless in extremis.

I'd argue that you're more likely to sustain injuries when the shit hits the fan that might prevent you from chambering a round when you really need it.

 

[zippy]

I'd argue that you're more likely to sustain injuries when the shit hits the fan that might prevent you from chambering a round when you really need it.

You mean they were doing it wrong when they had us fly over shitheadville with weapons unloaded and magazines in plastic bags taped shut? Say it ain't so...

 

[ChuckMK23]

Just FYI MARSOC "Raiders" turning in very nice but heavy Colt M45 custom 1911's for Glock 19.

Size and weight. More importantly, weight.

http://kitup.military.com/2016/10/marsoc-chooses-glock-19s-45s-raiders.html

 

[Griz882]

Just FYI MARSOC "Raiders" turning in very nice but heavy Colt M45 custom 1911's for Glock 19.

Size and weight. More importantly, weight.

I am not sure I like this decision (and I am certain MARSOC doesn't care if I like it!). The 9mm is an anemic round and I saw guys in Iraq and Afghanistan load up with as many as 100 pistol rounds on any given patrol. That is too much. If you can't hit it in 10 or 20 rounds, throw your pistol at it...you will be just as effective.