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NROTC master's?

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Tessone

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Help! I'm wondering if one can enroll in NROTC as a graduate student (Marine option, if that makes a difference). For various reasons, I'm considering going to the University of Illinois for a master's degree instead of going straight into the service. Can I do NROTC while I'm getting the master's?

I know a guy who got a master's in Nuclear Engineering while in NROTC, but I don't know if it was a one or two year program (so he might have already been a midshipman before starting his master's program).

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Chris Tessone
http://www.polyglut.net/
 

Gatordev

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According to the letter of the law (as I last knew it), NROTC is strictly an undergraduate commissioning program. Not sure how your friend swung it, but it's not "supposed" to happen. I suppose if you got a masters w/ your undergrad, it would work. There was another thread about this not long ago.

Not saying it can't be done (standard statement), but that's what the official position is (or was anyway).
 

FlyGirl

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I'm not sure if it's ROTC..but I believe they do have a program...talk to a recruiter. I do know that for example, you can get your law degree, sign papers similiar to NROTC and then upon graduation you become commissioned through the 8 week program in RI and go into JAGS. I would check the naval recruiting website and see what it says..
 

Tessone

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That sucks. I wonder if it would be worth transferring just to do NROTC, esp. if they'd maybe give me a master's into the bargain. (My school has a few 3-2 programs with the U of I; three years here, two years there, and a BA/MS at the end, but not in any of my fields.)

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Chris Tessone
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Gatordev

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Tessone:

I've heard of the program FlyGirl was mentioning...actually a guy I started flight school w/ and went all the way through the RAG w/ is married to someone who did that.

Might be something to look into for NROTC. Personally, I think ROTC is the way to go, if you fit w/in the parameters. And as a prospective Marine, you'll get a lot of exposure from the MECEPs, which is good stuff.
 

Tessone

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I know of the JAG program, but I'm not really interested in becoming a lawyer for the Marine Corps.

Honestly (and I know this is weird for this forum), what I really want is to just maybe get to choose what I'll be doing in the Corps. I feel like flying would be interesting, but I'd really rather command ground troops.

As it stands, I appear to have almost 0 chance to get a ground slot--my recruiter has already converted my book to air per my request because of the dearth of slots. Even if there were a slot, I don't think I'm physically in good enough shape to get one for ground. On the other hand, if I go to NROTC, I would get good experience, get in better shape, and maybe have a better shot at infantry.

I figure, you only get one shot at something like this, gotta do it right, yeah? But there are other variables involved, so we'll see. I've inquired about getting a joint BA/MA in Russian (that is, both awarded at the same time, so NROTC should pay for it).

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Chris Tessone
http://www.polyglut.net/
 

Tessone

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One more question--is it possible to be a midshipman with NROTC and not receive a scholarship? I know NROTC will only pay for undergraduates, but is it possible for a grad student to pay his own way but still be part of the battalion, still do PT, still do the summer cruise (at Quantico in my case), and then be commissioned after graduation?

As an aside, it turns out the guy I know didn't get his grad work paid for, and he finished both BS and MS in four years anyway.

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Chris Tessone
http://www.polyglut.net/
 

Harmony Boy

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Chris,
If you don't have your degree yet I think you can enter NROTC now (sans any funding/stipend from the Navy) at least for your undergrad degree. Yes, there are programs where those that are already in NROTC can go on and get a master's degree and have the Navy foot the bill. I'll quote from the NROTC newsletter from the Berkeley unit:
http://navyrotc.berkeley.edu/focsle/focsle_spr02.pdf

"Graduate School: Another “career opportunity” of sorts for midshipmen is the chance to go to graduate school. You may be interested in order to pursue a field of study that sparked your interest as an undergrad, or to help advance your career (both in and out of the military). Most of the Navy and Marine Corps’ graduate school programs are for people who have (continued CAREER) finished their first tour; for example, junior officers at NROTC units usually are able to work on a masters degree. For the purpose of this article, I will focus on those opportunities that exist to do graduate school before your first tour:
**Finish in four years: Hotrunning midshipmen who can squeeze in masters requirements as well as their BS/BA can finish in four years. This usually works best for humanities majors; for example, now-LTJG Deal finished both a bachelors and masters degree in English at Stanford in four years.
**Finish in four-and-a-half (or four-and-a-third) years: Another option is to take a personal leave of absence for one semester/quarter, but continue to take classes (often at another university, which can be cheaper). Since the Navy “owes” you four full years of tuition, this gives you an extra quarter/semester to finish up your graduate school. MIDN Moses did this option, studying in Australia during his LOA.
**Graduate School LOA: A relatively obscure section of the NROTC Administrative Manual (NAM) notes that one can apply for a year’s LOA in order to pursue graduate studies. As you are on leave of absence, it is up to you to pay for tuition and living expenses. You have to send in a copy of your acceptance letter to the graduate program, as well as a letter from the CO, at the start of your 1/C year. I did this option, and will be finishing up my masters next spring, to be commissioned with the now-2/C midshipmen.
**“Scholarship Program”: The Navy offers a”“Scholarship Program” allowing a select number of midshipmen to attend graduate school after being commissioned but before going to their first duty assignment. As a prerequisite, you must have received acceptance to graduate school as well as a scholarship that covers at least 25% of your tuition. The advantage of this program over the LOA is that you are commissioned, so you receive full pay and benefits. The disadvantage is that you incur additional service obligation, three years for each year you’re in graduate school. However, this service is served concurrently with your existing NROTC obligation, so if you finish your grad school in one year, there is effectively no additional obligation!
**Aviation Immediate Graduate Education Program: A final option for engineering students who will be naval aviators is getting a masters in Aeronautical Engineering at the Naval Postgraduate School (NPS) in picturesque Monterey, CA. MIDN Cross will be enrolling in this program; talk to him to learn more about this opportunity. (Note that the Naval Academy version of “IGEP” is also open to future SWO and submarine candidates who major in technical fields. It is possible that similar opportunities exist for NROTC midshipmen, although I’ve been unable to find information about them.)
**Another option, which one applies to during NROTC but in which one doesn’t actually attend grad school until after one’s first tour, is the Burke Program (see OPNAVINST 1520.18G). Note that people interested in grad school should look into taking the GRE, or Graduate Readiness Exam, which is like a slightly more difficult version of the SAT. As for professional degrees (like Law or Medicine), see the earlier part of this article on the restricted line and staff corps."

Hope that helps.

James
 

Gatordev

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Originally posted by Tessone
One more question--is it possible to be a midshipman with NROTC and not receive a scholarship? I know NROTC will only pay for undergraduates, but is it possible for a grad student to pay his own way but still be part of the battalion, still do PT, still do the summer cruise (at Quantico in my case), and then be commissioned after graduation?

Yes and no. You can be a mid, and do College program, which will earn you a commission and you only receive the stipend, however, you're still in the program, so it still requires an undergrad degree when you're done. It sounds like the combined BA/MA might work for you, but out of curiosity, what year are you know...or more importantly, how many semesters do you have left?
 

Tessone

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I'm a junior right now. I'm ahead on credits at Knox, so I'll technically be a senior next term. If I stay at Knox, though, I'll end up staying til the end of next year to finish my Honors paper in Russian.

If I go to U of I, I don't know where I'll be. We're on trimesters and they're on semesters, we have different requirements for the BA than they do, etc., so I really don't know. What I'm banking on is for them to recognize that what I've done at Knox is enough to complete the department requirements for a BA in Russian. Then I could spend my two years at UIUC doing coursework for the MA in Russian, Naval Science courses, and all the little classes U of I requires for all BA students that I don't have from my three years at Knox.

It may seem like a lot of trouble, but my situation is that I'm completely unchallenged, have no prospects for interesting work through the completion of my BA, and the only instructor on campus who has the time to work with me individually is a huge ego case who won't speak Russian with me because he's embarassed by his knowledge level (he's an American, too, BTW). So I think going to a big school with a nice Russian program and NROTC might be just what I need.

Now just to convince my fiancee that this is all a good idea... :)

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Chris Tessone
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Gatordev

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Hmmm....well, believe it or not, it might be better if you need more credits. There's a two year college program for ROTC that I've mentioned on another thread. The catch is that you need to be accepted before your "junior" year. Basically, you need to have 4 more regular (non summer) semesters (based on a semester system). It sounds like you may have that, but I wouldn't try and sell the ROTC unit (and later, CNET) on the fact that you are trying to get a MA, but rather sell it as finishing your undergrad w/ the potential for an MA...if you see what I mean. I don't think this is dishonest, as you still haven't graduated, and transferring does usually mean getting a few credits behind.

The Marine college program is a little different, since they don't have as many Naval Science classes as the Navy (no navigation), so that could help. You would still have to go to OCS during the summer before your senior year (the way I understand it). There was a guy who did this at UF before I transferred from there. He was a junior, Marine option (MO) but was also taking the requisite intro to Naval science class. I'd recommend you give the unit at U of I a call and see what they can do for you. You may want to start w/ the freshman advisor (usually a Navy aviator) but he may hand you off to the Asstant marine officer instructor (a marine NCO) or the MOI (the Marine instructor..sometimes a CAPT or MAJ).

Good luck
 

Tessone

Registered User
The MOI at UIUC is a MAJ--I sent him and the unit CO an email today. (Maybe going to the top of the list was a bad idea, but I didn't want to get someone who didn't know who could help).

As for credits and the MA, I get you where too many credits could be a bad thing. In terms of the MA, I'm almost positive I don't have enough credit hours for the BA, or even close. So the option I'm looking at, I wouldn't be able to get the BA unless I finished the work for the MA, too, if that makes sense. That is, all I should have left is the U of I's gen ed requirements and graduate-level work in Russian. I'd be filling out the number of credit hours I need for the BA and getting a BA based on that, but getting an MA based on the level of work I'd be doing in Russian (as the MA seems to be based on passing the MA exams and taking the right classes, not on getting a certain number of credit hours).

All I can do is pray, I guess. :)

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Chris Tessone
http://www.polyglut.net/
 

Gatordev

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Sounds like a plan. Again, though, I wouldn't play up the MA idea to the unit...at least not at first. Sell them on the fact that you need enough credits to do the 2 year program. They'll perceive that as a viable plan to help out w/ the application process.
 

Tessone

Registered User
Okay, one more quick question--I don't have a final answer yet from the Slavic Dept. at UIUC, but my friends who have gone there say they don't offer joint degrees, as a rule. However, their masters programs are usually meant to be finished in 1 year if you're properly prepared.

I could take graduate classes as an undergrad, and then just register as a grad student my final term and receive the MA. However, I know NROTC is specifically a 2-year program--is it possible to take a one semester LOA for that last semester in order to register as a graduate student? I don't mind paying my own way that semester, but that's a full one-fourth of the program. I know they allow them to 4-year students for studies abroad...

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Chris Tessone
http://www.polyglut.net/
 

Gatordev

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Is it possible? Sure, it's probably possible, but not likely. LOA's are usually for academic breaks, although I'm sure they can be used for what you said. Generally they allow someone to take a break from the unit and concentrate on their studies...ie its general use isn't always for a good reason. Obviously there are exceptions.

The bigger problem is that you'd be commissioned w/ a masters not w/ an bachelors. I may be misunderstanding your question, so bear w/ me here, but the unit doesn't just let you show up on commissioning day and hand you your papers. They actually track your progress, it may not be as "invisible" as just signing up at the last minute. If you go there and get accepted w/out a bachelors, then all of a sudden you are ready to be commissioned but have a year old degree..this will probably be a problem.

I understand what you are trying to do, and I don't mean to be discouraging, just don't want you to get in hot water. Keep up the fight though!
 
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