NPQ From Flight due to Personality Traits

[Mickgriddle]

Fellow Air Warriors,

The closest thread I could find to my situation dealt with an applicant at MEPS being DQ'd by personality disorder. However, I just finished OCS and was given the lovely NAMI whammy just a week before graduating, rendering me uncommissioned yet done with training.

As a brief synopsis, I went to some counseling in college for a variety of stressors, all of which resolved themselves after a few weeks of sessions with no meds or any diagnosis. Just a few conversations with a LCP. Being honest, I put that down in my application and was flagged at MEPS for a psych eval etc. Passed the eval and went to OCS and progressed through their med screenings without a hitch, only to have my counseling record come up again around week 10.

The flight surgeon at NHCNE requested a futher psych evaluation as a formality, this one more in-depth, composed of 400+ questions. It was interpreted by a staff psychologist and I was told that I had some grey areas relating to dependent personality. NAMI subsequently reviewed the recommendedation and NPQ'd me from all duty involving flight due to maladaptive personality traits (301.9N). Quite a shock, but I'm not so attached to flying to give up the Navy after finishing OCS. I'm now awaiting redesignation.

Per my NAMI letter, I was found to have personality traits (true or not) that are unsuitable for duty involving FLIGHT, rendering me NPQ and NAA for aviation. I've accepted that. At the end of my NAMI letter, it said "all consideration for physical qualification for commission and non-aviation duties will be deferred to BUMED. The member's ocmmand has been notified and this letter is the official endorsement for BUMED"

My question now is how does that affect my status for commissioning? Will the presence of maladaptive personality traits make someone unfit for general duty, such as SWO? I can understand a diagnosed severe disorder, but not some NAA classification. If it's any difference, before sending her notes to NAMI, the staff psychologist said I was fit for full duty, but that NAMI would have the final say if I was PQ/AA (which I am no longer).

Thank you all for any insight.

 

[BusyBee604]

Fellow Air Warriors,

The closest thread I could find to my situation dealt with an applicant at MEPS being DQ'd by personality disorder. However, I just finished OCS and was given the lovely NAMI whammy just a week before graduating, rendering me uncommissioned yet done with training.....

.....My question now is how does that affect my status for commissioning? Will the presence of maladaptive personality traits make someone unfit for general duty, such as SWO?

Mick, that's a tough pill to swallow, especially after making it as far you did in OCS. Unfortunately, when a medical decision like yours comes down from Navy's top Aeromedical decision makers, it's a done deal. I doubt that any of us non-med AWs are qualified to offer much but sympathy, and suggesting you seek advice on this forum from, and direct questions to resident Flight Surgeon Time Bomb, Feddoc, etc. Good luck in seeking a positive resolution to your unfortunate situation.
BzB

 

[exNavyOffRec]

"all consideration for physical qualification for commission and non-aviation duties will be deferred to BUMED. The member's ocmmand has been notified and this letter is the official endorsement for BUMED"

My question now is how does that affect my status for commissioning? Will the presence of maladaptive personality traits make someone unfit for general duty, such as SWO? I can understand a diagnosed severe disorder, but not some NAA classification. If it's any difference, before sending her notes to NAMI, the staff psychologist said I was fit for full duty, but that NAMI would have the final say if I was PQ/AA (which I am no longer).

Thank you all for any insight.

It looks like you have answered your own question as you just have to wait for BUMED, they are the ones that will be determining your status.

Many things in the USN are "currently or history of".

It sounds as if you are trying to stay as upbeat as you can, many in your situation would just has said "forget it", keep up the good attitude.

 

[Mickgriddle]

Thanks guys for your responses, it's been tough accepting that I wont' be flying anymore and that being found NAA is not reversible. I'll see if I can conctact one of the flight surgeons here, or better yet, the one here in Newport. Do you think this could be grounds for separation? I just want to be an officer in the Navy above all.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Do you think this could be grounds for separation? I just want to be an officer in the Navy above all.

That is what BUMED will determine, it really depends on the views of the Doctor their, the views can change as the Doctors do since there is some interpretation involved.

 

[Mickgriddle]

I understand, I believe my med documents were sent to BUMED over a week ago. I can't help but wonder if NAMI was being extra picky and looking for reasons to DQ me to cull the flight school numbers. Am I paranoid or does that happen regularly?

 

[croakerfish]

I understand, I believe my med documents were sent to BUMED over a week ago. I can't help but wonder if NAMI was being extra picky and looking for reasons to DQ me to cull the flight school numbers. Am I paranoid or does that happen regularly?

No, the numbers are adjusted as necessary in API generally. You are not the first victim of the butchers at NHCNE... Just an extra little hurdle for OCS people vs the rest.

 

[A7Dave]

I understand, I believe my med documents were sent to BUMED over a week ago. I can't help but wonder if NAMI was being extra picky and looking for reasons to DQ me to cull the flight school numbers. Am I paranoid or does that happen regularly?

Certainly is possible. They used to make NFOs that way. Miss one aspect of the eye exam - NFO. Pass it every other time in your life, too bad. Friend of mine was like that. Had better eye sight than me but the NAMI whammy did him in.

Very sorry to hear it. Who the hell knows what happened. Seeking a little help shouldn't be a big deal. Sometimes, however, you just piss off the wrong guy/gal Doctor who has it in for folks who want to be pilots. Fight it if you can. If you can't fight it to make it to SWO school or whatever else. I knew a guy who was NPQed and maybe NAAed after 3 years of flying, yet was allowed to apply for BUD/S. He succeeded and became a SEAL.

Don't let the pencil necks stop you. If aviation is absolutely out, decide what your next goal is and do everything to attain it. Never accept the apples on the ground. Look up and grab the highest one you can reach. Special Boat units, SEALS, Subs, SWO, what ever you decide, go get it. Don't settle for good enough. Oh, and 100% honesty isn't always the best policy. Not every one and every situation deserves the "need to know".

 

[Mickgriddle]

Thanks for the advice Dave. I think that aviation is definitely out, NAMI has already made their decision about that, my letter specifically said NPQ/NAA from flight. I'm more concerned about possibly being NPQ from service because of this, but that would be ridiculous since I was never diagnosed with a disorder nor have any history of it. As for the honesty bit, if I didn't put down on my app that I went to counseling, they might have found it one way or another and it would have been a bad day for me.

 

[webmaster]

...Don't let the pencil necks stop you. If aviation is absolutely out, decide what your next goal is and do everything to attain it. Never accept the apples on the ground. Look up and grab the highest one you can reach. ...

Awesome post, and great advice!

 

[LFCFan]

Thanks for the advice Dave. I think that aviation is definitely out, NAMI has already made their decision about that, my letter specifically said NPQ/NAA from flight. I'm more concerned about possibly being NPQ from service because of this, but that would be ridiculous since I was never diagnosed with a disorder nor have any history of it. As for the honesty bit, if I didn't put down on my app that I went to counseling, they might have found it one way or another and it would have been a bad day for me.

So the thing is, you weren't diagnosed, but according to their tests you do have a history of it (not saying that it is true per se, just being devil's advocate). And yeah, some of their psych stuff is a bit ridiculous. I understand that the way it is worded makes it sounds like you are going to go through the gauntlet again, but I'm pretty sure that all NAMI letters say that, and you've already survived a commissioning physical just to get to OCS, so you should be ok medically to get SWO or whatever. What could be hairy is simply whether or not there are billets left to give to NPQed candidates.

And good on you for being honest. Obviously, honesty is good for its own sake, but unlike the rest of medical, psych stuff comes up on clearances and you'd have to lie there too, which is a really bad idea.

 

[Mickgriddle]

No I was never diagnosed, their conclusion came after a single evaluation and psych test (MMPI I think). It's a moot point now since I actually just heard back today that I was cleared by BUMED for commissioning I'm wondering now whether the NAMI letter remains true (that I am NAA) or if I can contest that...

 

[RiseR 25]

Ok, I'm sorry, but whatever happened to being a little bit childish and impatient??!! I always found that to be an extremely good quality on my part to accelerate my learning curve when I go flying, as well as my motivation to becoming a rocket scientist (ME major). This looks to me like personnel/pipeline management and I know I'm going to take heat for saying that. This is why they need to make these kinds of determinations (or at least start the flight physical process, not finish it) before shipping out.

And yes mickgriddle good call on the honesty, you are an honorable man for doing so.

 

[RiseR 25]

No, the numbers are adjusted as necessary in API generally. You are not the first victim of the butchers at NHCNE... Just an extra little hurdle for OCS people vs the rest.

I couldn't have described it better, thank you sir.

 

[Mickgriddle]

Ok, I'm sorry, but whatever happened to being a little bit childish and impatient??!! I always found that to be an extremely good quality on my part to accelerate my learning curve when I go flying... This looks to me like personnel/pipeline management and I know I'm going to take heat for saying that. This is why they need to make these kinds of determinations (or at least start the flight physical process, not finish it) before shipping out.

I agree too, pilots must have some traits of narcissism and compulsivity. As for the "dependent" traits, it could be that the test was misinterpreted or I answered based on the mindset of being in an artificial environment like OCS for 12 weeks. I can't help but think that NAMI was just watching their six and playing it safe to a fault.