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November 09 Boards

TheDude86

New Member
Yeah, it does get frustrating, but I'm hoping for things to turn around once I take the OAR. Speaking of, how recently did you take? Regarding the mechanical section, I haven't taken HS physics in a long time (just like most people on these threads)...do you honestly feel that studying the gouges and what the OR sends you is sufficient? I realize most of the questions are conceptual in nature (no really focused on problem solving), but just would like to get a better feel for certain concepts, such as electrical. Are we talking anything crazy? Do you recall seeing any questions in this section and were just like WTF?!? The reading and math seem more or less straight forward, really just comes down to Time Management - same thing everyone else talks about.

There were a couple of "WTF" questions. Those, however, had to do with aeronautical terminology, which is something I have no experience with and could have used more preparation. I took the test in the later part of September. The mathematical and mechanical sections aren't super hard, in fact they're easy. What makes it difficult is the pressure of very limited time. That is the point of the test though. Think of it more as a stress test than anything else. If you practice basic arithmetic, geometry, and algebra to the point of intuition you'll be more than fine with the math section. As far as the mechanical section goes, you'll be looking at the basic principles of gears, pulleys, levers, forces, and some electromagnetic principles (however I only encountered a couple questions involving electricity). Most of the info I'm about to write down you can find online, or in one of the study books (arco or barron's). This is the material I do remember encountering though.

When it comes to gears, or belt fed rotational devices, remember that the smaller the diameter (or radius, however you want to look at it) the faster it will rotate NO MATTER WHAT. They will try to trick you by adding a bunch of fluff into the question, don't let the "X rotates this many times and Y rotates this many times, which rotates faster" fool you. The smaller one rotates faster.

- You'll be asked to find the number of rotations of one gear given the number of rotations of the gear it is meshed with. Remember the equation: R1 = (D2xR2)/D1 where:

R1 is the number of rotations you're solving for
R2 is the known number of rotations for the second gear
D1 is the number of teeth on the gear you're solving for
D2 is the number of teeth on the second gear (known gear)

- Consecutive meshed gears will always rotate opposite of each other. Therefore gears 1,3,5 etc. will rotate in the same direction and gears 2,4,6 etc. will rotate in the same direction but opposite of the odd numbered gears. This will help when they ask which direction what gear rotates.

-The gear ratio with the highest mechanical advantage is whatever answer gives a ration of highest to smallest. By example:

"Which gear ratio provides the highest mechanical advantage?"

A. 14:8
B. 16:12
C. 27:9

The answer would be C.


-Ummm, what else. Oh yeah, belt fed rotating devices will rotate in the same direction if the belt is not crossed and will rotate in opposite directions if the belt is crossed.

- I don't remember any electrical equations off the top of my head, but I don't remember needing them. The questions involving electricity and magnetism were very simple in nature, from what I can recall.

-Know the difference between a first, second, and third class lever.

-Uhhh, when it comes to hydraulic pumps or jacks. They'll question you on the distance one jack would travel if you applied a force to the other. For this remember the equation: A2/A1 = D1/D2 where:

A1 is the area of the smaller cylinder
A2 is the area of the larger cylinder
D1 is the vertical distance moved by the smaller cylinder
D2 is the vertical distance moved by the larger cylinder.

Example: "If the smaller cylinder is two inches in diameter and the larger is 8, by how much will the smaller cylinder rise if the larger is compressed by one inch?"

The answer is 4. This is also the mechanical advantage

-One thing to remember about mechanical advantage: you can increase the mechanical advantage by changing the makeup of whatever system you're using. (That is, adding pulleys, enlarging gears, changing the area of a pump)This may make the task seem easier to accomplish. However, no matter what you do, in a perfect system you will still have to do the same amount of work to achieve the same results. In an imperfect (real) system it can make things worse.

-Pulleys are a great example of this. (this is definitely material they questioned me on) If you have to lift mass x up a distance of y feet with only one cable around a pulley, you'll have to exert the full amount of force to lift mass x. If you suspend mass x with a two cable system then you will only have to exert a force equal to half the weight but pull the cable twice as far. Hence, you are doing the same amount of work. If you change it again to a 3 cable system, then the force will be 1/3 the weight and you will pull 3 times as far.

-Force is also a big one, but not necessarily in computing answers for equations. You'll be asked quite a bit about what direction the force of lift is asking, or what direction friction is acting upon an object. You'll also be asked about the different "components" of force (the downward an diagonal components of gravity acting on a cart rolling down a hill for instance).

Thats most of what I can remember off the top of my head in relation to the mechanical section. The gouges the ORs give are helpful, but I think the study books are more beneficial mainly because the mathematical and physical questions you'll come across in those books are more difficult than the questions on the actual ASTB. I have the Barron's which I like and probably should have studied more. One word of caution though. Many posters here have found errors in the books. I found a couple scattered in the practice tests. The information and difficulty of most questions, in general, is very beneficial though.

Lastly, from my point of view, and as everyone else here has noted, time management is important. As I said earlier, think of this as a stress test more than anything else. Keeping calm is key, especially when you run up against a question that stumps you. Take a couple seconds to think it out and if you still can not find the answer, mark the question or make an educated guess and don't sweat it. Go back if you have time. As Rass pointed out (By the way, great score Rass!) Being quick with the calculations is key. Practice the equations until they become intuitive so your mind can become familiar with the patterns. It's just like practicing anything else (sports, art, music, etc), you want the process to become fluent so your mind doesn't have to crunch the numbers when you need it thinking about other stuff. (If I could only learn to follow my own advice!!!)

Sorry for the long post. Hopefully this will help.
 

visual_scan

New Member
Hi guys, first time poster, long time reader of these boards. I took the ASTB yesterday, I scored a 9/9/9 62, and I would like to share my preparation strategy. I would also like to note that when I first began studying, I couldn't even figure out how to do some of the problems in the guides, let alone do them quickly. It was discouraging. I accepted the fact that the solution wasn't immediately apparent, but it would be if I put in the effort. except for a few exceptions, I do not agree with the word "aptitude." Math and the mechanical sections appear to require this aptitude, but in reality, it just requires an understanding of all the little building blocks. Put in the time, with honest self-assesment, and you can do good. This is the attitude I held while studying.

Number one, read these boards! There is a lot of useful information, and be sure to download the study guides. The Marine study guide is great practice. I also found that some of the study guides offered by other users on this site nicely covered some of the history of the Navy and of the space program. I used both arco books, and the real magic maker- 'Cliffs math review for standardized tests.' I went from cover to cover, practicing every type of problem, strengthening those little building blocks. For the mechanical section, I read the PDF file on simple machines available from this site, practicing problems along the way. I'm a flight instructor, so the nautical section was simple, and it is indeed simple, but its still going to take some sweat to get the info to stick, and be understandable. In the pilots handbook of aeronautical knowledge, read ch.1-6, and ch. 14 on navigation.

Once armed with this info, I did practice tests, untimed. I was lucky to finish 10 min over the time limit. I rotated tests, and took the SAME ones over and over, (don't leave the answers marked) until I could finish in time. This built confidence. Once you start thinking you're unstoppable, take a practice test you haven't seen before. Go back and review any questions you get hung up on, and take note of what you did wrong, and promise to never do it again. Work to eliminate mistakes, and gain exposure to many different types and formats of questions.

The test was much, much easier than I expected, but that's only relative to the preparations made. You should know how you're going to do on the test before you even take the test. It can be done!! It is all effort, little aptitude. Good luck-
 

visual_scan

New Member
BTW, regarding the spatial section, practice until you can solve the problem without looking at the alternative answer choices. When I look at one of these problems, I'll say to myself, ATTITUDE/BANK/RELATION TO SHORE/WATER LOCATION

"climbing left turn, steep, across shoreline, water on the left"
 

cdb26

New Member
Thanks everyone, you've all been extremely helpful. In the meantime, I'm going to get back to work and really hit the last couple days hard in terms of repetition and timed testing. Hoping it all goes well Monday at 0900.

Side note...I confirmed with my OR that the only sections I'll be taking are Reading Comp, Math and Mechanical. I see that most people have the other scores (referenceing Spatial, Naut and aero). But then again, I've read posts from those who thought and supposedly had the same thing confirmed by their own ORs and ended up taking the entire test. Will probbaly brush up a bit on that stuff anyway just in case.

Regarding timing...I've read tons of posts that emphasize time management. In most of my practice tests, I seem to be getting through OK. Typically punch out 30 math questions in 26-27 min. I guess at the end of the world, I could always guess on the last 2 questions or so. Did a lot of you in this thread run out of time and were forced to guess?
 

NYYanks

Tweaking off my coffee
CDB, I don't know why your recruiter told you that. Unless I am mistaken, if your applying for Intel, you have to take all the sections, not just the OAR part. I believe that Intel is the only non airdale designator that requires the full test.
 

kitemen

New Member
CDB26 good luck on your exam. I am taking the astb monday for the first time!! Its hard to sleep thinking about it.

Did you guys find many of the word problems on the math section? age,work,coin,ratios,etc.. I emphasized most of my study on the them. They seemed the most time consuming questions.

How about question about Navy history?? I came across a couple on my study book
 

cdb26

New Member
Kitemen...I too focused on the word problems. I'm pretty cool with all of them except for the age one...what a pain in the ass. Regarding naval history, my OR specifically told me that I would have only the 3 sections on my OAR, no naut, aero or spatial. Weird, but I just reconfirmed that with him again today. What did you focus on re: mechanical? The gouges more or less?
 

TheDude86

New Member
my OR specifically told me that I would have only the 3 sections on my OAR

For Intel, from what I've been told, you only need the OAR. But it doesn't hurt to have the whole test to be honest. My OR has been encouraging his applicants to take the full battery and I'm inclined to agree. Why not go the full route while you can. It can only help if you score well and decide to change your designated communities in the future.

In any case, good luck to you cdb26 and kitemen. You'll both do fine!
 

kitemen

New Member
For the mechanical, I focus on all the gauges i could find, including this thread. "thedude86" scared me with his comments on the mechanical stuff. At first, I was lost reading his comments, something about all those formulas in the mechanical. Its hard to visualize the mechanical stuff with out the images !!! I hope the images are on the test.

I also learned about the gear ratio advantage "27:9". Thanks thedude86, that was helpful.

Just one topic i couldn't find a good simple gauge. That was the electrical diagram stuff. Do we have to know the formulas for current, resistance, voltage? That confuses me a bit.

I am taking the computer version. Are you? It must be annoying to do the math section on a computer, considering the time limit!!
 

cdb26

New Member
Kitemen, did your OR tell you that you'd be taking on the computer? I don't know if mine is computer or paper, but my guess is computer. Based on all the mechanical review I did, I would say that we don't need to know formulas for electrical. I think the only realy formulas we need to know pertain to MA and levers (ratios).

What's peoples' take on the math? Is it heavily weighted on word problems? Those are show stoppers in terms of killing time.
 

TheDude86

New Member
Rest assured, pictures accompany everything in the mechanical section. Many of the gouges and study books will go over the same stuff and have pictures to go along with it. The math is a mix between basic arithmetic, both in word form and not, as well as some algebra and maybe some geometry. The word problems aren't too bad. If you go over SAT test questions and learn to hammer those down, you'll be fine. Recognizing the strategy to solving the problem is half the battle. Visual_scan did a pretty good job a detailing a good strategy to succeeding in the math section.
 

kd5pbo

New Member
Did you guys find many of the word problems on the math section? age,work,coin,ratios,etc.. I emphasized most of my study on the them. They seemed the most time consuming questions.

How about question about Navy history?? I came across a couple on my study book

There were several word problems. Most of your effort will be spent translating them to math. After that, they're basic algebra.

I don't recall many naval history questions, if any. Something about John Paul Jones being the father of the navy sticks in my mind, though.

Most of the questions that threw me were aviation-related, and all of those were on the non-oar sections.
 

m26

Well-Known Member
Contributor
Submitted today, should be in TN by Tuesday. Now the waiting begins...
 

kitemen

New Member
My recruiter said they might have a board in December as well, because of the high number of applications and low number of people in the board. Did anyone hear anything similar?
 
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