NFO vs. Aviator

[NozeMan]

Hey all,

Currently I am a 3rd class midshipman in NROTC. For as long as I can remember, I've wanted to fly for the Navy. I dont have 20/20 vision now, but PRK is now an option for all NROTC mids. Anyways, I am still not sure whether or not I want to be a pilot or NFO. And I think I'm the only one in my unit that actually wanted to be an NFO at one point in time! So for all you NFO's out there...do you guys get treated any differently in the fleet? I've heard mixed things, that you aren't treated differently AND that you're thought of as second rate to the pilots. I have another question about job security I guess. Do you guys get promoted the same and have the same opporunities for command etc? What kinds of jobs can NFO's get when they get out of the Navy? I've been curious about all of this for some time, so any help would be great!

Noze

 

[goplay234]

No, they don't treat you differently. You might take some ribbing but that's about it. You fire it back when it comes. You have the same opportunities for command pretty much. That really doesn't change. You gotta remember that the NFO is his pilot's best friend in the air. When it comes down to it, the two rely on eachother to survive. So, there is mutual respect all around. In my experience, I have never seen it any different. YOu are like me. I am 20/20 and I have always wanted to be a NFO. People said I was crazy but hey, if that's what you want to do, then go for it. As for jobs out of the Navy...It depends. First off, you will be a Naval Officer which will carry significant weight with ANY employer. The fact that you had true leadership thrown on you at age 22 will be extremely marketable. Now, if you aren't a pilot already, United won't be calling, but others will. By the time you get out, you will probably have your masters in something. Frankly, I wouldn't worry about job security once you get out. Worry about getting good grades, graduating, and nailing flight school. The rest will come in time. But, if you are wondering, I have had about 3 job offers in the past three months to work in my field of study in college. They uped my salary when they found out I was military. Don't worry. If you do well and don't screw up, this job will open doors. Good luck.
--Goplay

 

[josejimmenez]

If you already have all your pilot ratings in the civilian world, does time flying as an NFO help you get a flight job when u ge out? Im thinking more along the lines of Gov't work with the DEA, FBI etc...anyway if I dont stay in the Military

 

[av8tor]

United won't be calling any pilot's anytime soon either, they're in bankrupcy with all the other major airlines.

 

[av8tor]

Here's a little comparison why you should begin your flying career with the NAvy and stay Navy for all the pilot's and NFO's out there.

Civilian Route Military
Flight School Costs: 25K Approx. 0 K Exact
Year 1 Flight Instructor Pay: 10K Approx. Flight Student: 36 K Approx.
Year 2 Flight Instructor Pay: 10 K Approx. Flight Student: 36 K Approx.
Year 3 FO Regional Airline Pay: 18 K Approx. Aviator: 44 K Approx.
Year 4 FO Regional Airline Pay: 25 K Approx. Aviator: 48 K Approx.
Year 5 FO Regional Airline Pay: 25 K Approx. Aviator: 55 K Approx.
Year 6 FO Regional Airline Pay: 25 K Aviator: 60 K
Year 7 Captain Regional Airline Pay: 48 K Aviator: 65 K

My drift is that military flying will make you rich! Much of you pay will be free from taxes and with signing bonuses on top of pay your bank will view you as a preferred customer.

 

[mlj0215]

Rich? Signing bonus? More details...please!

 

[av8tor]

Okay, I've been in eight years and gross 72 K much of which is not Federally taxable. 48 States do not have any state taxes for military members. This is a huge savings, since I'm in the highest tax bracket. If I spend one day out of a month in a hot spot all my pay for that month is 100% tax free. The intial signing bonus is 45 K for three more years, then there are Depatment Head, X.O., C.O., and community specific bonuses to inflate your salary. Bonus can be invested directly into the Thrift Savings Plan to avoid taxes, as well as, a portion of your yearly earning. TSP is going to increase matching of 5 to 1, the same as Federal employees. Don't forget the 50% retirement at 20 with 2.5% increase for longevity, free medical for life, MAC flights, and unlimited BOQ stays. Per Diem, if your entitled, again is untaxable.

 

[olpa9901]

holy crappola

 

[Fredster809]

Yeah crapola, I am an E-6 with 9 years in and keep looking at 0-3E base pay $4800 a month compared to the $2400 I now get. In four years after gratuating OCS my pay will almost double(BAH doesn't double).

 

[reapergm]

Nozeman - PRK is allowed officially for midshipman!?

NFO is an awesome gig! I applied to be one but there were no slots available to Marine OCS applicants on the east coast. Every NFO Ive ever talked to loves their job, and loves to talk about it. You will still get to fly in the most sophisticated aircrafts in the world! Awesome!Now Im going for pilot.

Yeah Navy might be great pay, but make sure you want to fly for the MILITARY and be prepared to take the risks that come along with it. Be wary that you might face combat and not so friendly skies! I want to be a Marine pilot really bad, but I know I might lose my slot to some kid who wants to be an airline pilot and is doing the Marines just to get there. I hate that so much!!!

 

[kmac]

Honest question:
I know that there are NFOs in the pilot transition. But are there any pilots transitioning to be an NFO? (not including medical reasons)

 

[NozeMan]

reapergm,

PRK has been allowed for Mids for some time now (at least for NROTC). The academy mids have been allowed PRK for at leasat 4 years I believe. For NROTC, they just changed the rules so I can get my eyes fixed (paying for it myself) and not have to go on Medical LOA. In the past, NROTC Mids have had to forfeit a semester of their scholarships in order to get it done. That no longer is the case.!!

Noze

 

[zab1001]

Supposedly a few years back (like '99 ish) a few F-14 pilots got attrited at the Rag and they were put back through as RIOs. Supposedly.

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

This squadron has fifteen NFOs but only one that does not want to be a pilot. There is an NFO-to-pilot transition program in the Navy but there is not a pilot-to-NFO transition program. Also, in flight school it is doable to decide that you don't want to be a pilot, attrite from the pilot program and become an NFO. It is impossible, I believe, to go the other way. As a pilot I'm admittedly biased.

Also, there are no aircraft open to junior birdmen such as NozeMan for which hours as an NFO will be of interest to an airline. There were a number of S-3 NFOs that logged their right seat time (legally) because they were, in fact, at the controls, but F/A-18Fs, P-3s, E/A-6s, E-2s and the rest do not offer that opportunity to our double-anchor brethren.

Finally, ask yourself how much you want to be involved in the aviation side of things. That is, there are some airframes (E-2s and P-3s come to mind) that don't require the NFOs to know the difference between a control tower and the Eiffel Tower. They perform challenging and rewarding work in the back but aren't all that involved in getting the airframe from one place to another.

As with any matter of opinion, the best answer is to talk to real, breathing aviators of both varieties. Try to get opinions from a variety of communities.

 

[bunk22]

I think you have to be honest with yourself as to what you think your capabilities are. Some guys are just not stick and rudder types. Most the NFO's I've known in my time are NFO's due to bad eyesight so they had no option. A few of those definitely didn't have piloting abilities and the NFO side of the house was best for them regardless. Pilot skills could encompass everything from hand eye coordination to confindence, decision making, etc. NFO's require some of the same skills so please don't think I'm knocking that side of the house. If you're on the fence about which to be, I would say pilot may not be your thing. I always wanted to be a pilot with no thought about being an NFO. I like being at the controls, never wanted to be along for the ride. Those desires definitely helped alot during my training, helped me to stay focused if you will. Just my .02.