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NFO to airlines

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PhatFarmer35

Registered User
Hello:

I've read on some of the old fourms about careers for NFOs in the civilian world but I was a little more interested about the airline careers. If I went to college and majored in aviation science wanting to get an SNA slot, but was only selected for SNFO, then serving in the Navy for about 8 years as a NFO flying other aircraft (censsnas and that type) in my freetime, would I be able to get a job as an airline pilot? Basicly what I'm asking is is it likley that a NFO could get a job as an airline pilot?

Thank you for replying.
 

bcw

Registered User
Majors no. Regionals yes. If you instruct long enough you can build enough time to get there. I've seen a lot of my friends go to Great Lakes, ASA, American Eagle, and many 135 jobs. You could go to a regional,gain some 121 experience(1000 turbine PIC) then hit up the majors. Get your Commercial certificate, CFI and go build some time. I've been instructing for over two years. Civilian aviation sucks!
 

Thisguy

Pain-in-the-dick
There is a way, but it's disappearing fast. The S-3 is the only platform where the NFO can log stick time, because it used to have 2 pilots up front like the E-2, but n ot he right seat is occupied by a FO. My MO knows a bunch of S-3 NFOs flying for the airlines, but again, VS-29 and 38 will be decomissioned by April, leaving 2 S-3 squadrons on the west coast. 33 is done in 2009.
 

bcw

Registered User
Just curious. How does the NFO log pic time if the pilot signed for the aircraft?
 

HAL Pilot

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
I am a retired P-3 NFO whom is currently a furloughed Hawaiian Air pilot. Your NFO time will not get you anywhere with a 121 airline, regional or major. But it will help you get a start in the CFI and 135 world. There it will not help you meet the minimum hiring requirements, but will be a tie breaker against other applicants. It shows the employer aviation experience and maturity. However, this is a point for the interview and you have to be able to work it in without trying to compare it to pilot time.

I personally retired with my commercial ASEL & AMEL tickets with 400 hours in September 1998. I got all my tickets and time through the Navy flying clubs. If I had been smart and not married my ex-wife, I would have used the flying clubs to get my CFI, CFII and MEI and instruct part time. Instead I did not fly for my last 8 years of active duty and used my GI Bill after my retirement/divorce. I instructed for 6 months and than got hired by a 135 tour operator. I quickly moved onto a 121 regional and joined Hawaiian in July 2001. I got lucky as that was a great time for hiring.

After you get through the FRS, join your local Navy flying club and earn as many tickets while you can on active duty. Get as much multi as possible. Every Navy flying club I flew at had pretty cheap multienging eaircraft and they lacked MEIs. So get your MEI as quickly as possible to build multi time. We had one JO in my last squadron who had his ATP, all CFI tickets and 1900+ hours when he left the Navy after his initial commitment was up. He got hired by Trans States in 1999 and was in a major hiring pool before 9/11/2001. He is an RJ Captain now.

It's doable but it takes commitment and $$.

Don't go the NFO route if your heart is not in it. I understand wanting to be a pilot, but you can not look at NFO as second best or think of it as a stepping stone to a pilot seat. If you do, you will be miserable and it will reflect in your job performance.
 

wink

War Hoover NFO.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I did the NFO to airline pilot thing, and know a few others that did as well. Most of what you read above is accurate. Got questions? Fire away.
 

PhatFarmer35

Registered User
Thank you for all the replies.

When trying to get a job as an airline pilot, is there any aircraft airlines would prefer you flew on? Would the typical airline care if you were a NFO on a P-3 as opposed to an F/A-18 (if you were in the Marine Corps)?

If I was a NFO for 10 years, about how many hours and which certificates should I have to have a good chance of getting a job as an regional airline pilot? Also, after I become a regional airline pilot, about how long would it take to move on the majors? Or is it different with each person?

wink, could you just tell me a little bit about yourself? What aircraft you flew on, what aircraft/airline you fly for now, when you left the Navy and all that kinds of stuff? Thank you.
 

phrogdriver

More humble than you would understand
pilot
Super Moderator
Wink would have a better idea about this, but as I understand it, it's only legal to count SIC time when not manipulating the controls if the aircraft REQUIRES a SIC. Even if the a/c needs an NFO, I'm not sure that is the same as requiring a SIC. You might log it, but if it came up in an interview, things might get sticky. I'd definitely ask an FAA flt examiner about it before filling up that logbook.
 

wink

War Hoover NFO.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I was a S-3 COTAC/TACCO. Was a rated civ pilot when I went into the Navy with the happy goal of becoming a NFO. I was hired by a major carrier in 1989 and now fly the MD-80. I was not planning on becoming an airline pilot. A local commuter was hiring when I got out of the Navy and my wife encouraged me to go and have some fun! If a guy was a NFO and wanted to become a professional pilot he should build the same resume as any other civ applicant in terms of flight time and certificates. All the NFO stuff is a bonus or tie breaker. If you are lucky it might put you on top of a civ guy with less time but I never counted on that. When I was hired I had just about the same time as all the other civ applicants. Unlike most of them though, I had much more aeronautical maturity. An hour spent as an NFO may not be logged as PIC but it sure is great airmanship experience. Everyone I interviewed with recognized that. If you have been an NFO you have been NATOPS qualified on at least three different Navy aircraft and underwent annual requal for years. You may have experienced life threatening emergenices, high stress missions, mission planning requireing great detail, been a maintenance div off, safety off, or training off. I even carried nukes (cold war). Your typical civ guy doesn't come close to those resume bullets. He has the flight time but it is anyones guess whether he has the command attitude and airmanship required of the job. An airline hiring a former NFO can be nearly certain that he will not experience any problems in training or when given the responsibility of Captain. At the time of my hiring my company had a dual track interview process, one for military guys the other for civilian. I went throught the military route even though I had a civ log book! About logging SIC as an NFO. It might depend on who is reading it. Look it up your self, FAR 61.55. The Fed that certified my log book for my ATP didn't care a bit that I had logged SIC time in the S-3. The airline knew it was NFO (special crew) logged as SIC and it didn't keep me from being hired. What ever you do don't misrepresent your flight time. Your total NFO experience is more valuable then a few hundred hours of SIC you may have been able to log as an NFO. The highlights are: The aircraft must require a second in command. To the FAA that means a pilot not designated as PIC but required for the flight. You must have proper ratings, ie multi, intrument, etc. 61.55b is very important. You must have certain training and demonstrate certain things in the airplane. Using the flight sim is OK. If you can meet all the requirements of 61.55 and fly with a stick between your legs with the ability to take control of the aircraft (sorry, no TACCOs or Prowler ECCMOs) you can probably log SIC. You log the entire mission time not just when or if you actually fly the aircraft. Keep in mind that it must require two crew members to fly. Time spent in the training command in a T-6 or T-45 won't hack it. Time in the T-39 won't, even though it requires two crew, because you will not have demonstrated landings, engine-out work, etc. as a SNFO. Remember now, I'm an old out of practice sea lawyer, not a Fed. It is, however, my experience that if an NFO works at it to get the tickets, builds some time while in the Navy, plans on spending a year or so in a regional airline, and the majors are hiring, he can be an outstanding applicant with a leg up on the typical civ only guy. I know several NFOs that have done the same as I have.
 

Pat1USMC

Enroute to VMAQ-1
Thanks very much for the great info and opinions. You have kept my dream alive for a little while longer!
 

HAL Pilot

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
Rob_ERAU said:
Hey Hal Pilot
You know Captain Chester Martain, 737 Pilot for Hawaiian Air?
Just Curious
There is a C. A. Martin on the senority list. I don't know him but I have been furloughed from HAL for 15 months. Plus I wwas flying international and don't know many of the inter-island guys.

HAL does not fly 737s, Aloha does. HAL flies 717s and 767s.
 

angelj

Registered User
Most major airlines have min flight hour requirements, so moving to the majors depends on how quickly an individual can build time. Also, there tends to be a trend when majors begin hiring; during the initial stages of hiring, the process happens very rapidly. This means that people, who may not have many hours but meet the min requirements, will be hired. It becomes very competitive once the process slows down. It is a very good idea to stay on top of when airlines are hiring, and get your application in during the first couple of days. My dad hires for a major, and he recommends becoming a member of Air Inc. (the owner has very good relationships with most of the majors).
P-3 vs. F-18, there might be a slight advantage as a member of a P-3 crew, only because you will have more experience with “Crew Resource Management.” But the time attained in a fighter is highly respected; you normally have to be top of your class to get fighters, and the hours spent in the plane are much more productive. Each airline looks for different things though, Ex: Some airlines will hire fighter pilots right out of the military, while others require them to have some Crew Resource Management time first.

It is a great idea to research what each airline looks for, there are many websites devoted to this. I hope that helps!!
 
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