New York moves for tougher gun laws after failed bombing

[mmx1]

Not only that, but BEYOND that: the people we SHOULD be screening, or at least looking a lot more closely at (Young arab speaking males 18-40) are not even allowed to be looked at wrong for fear of a lawsuit. This PC-paradigm shift is not only obnoxious but dangerous. It's not as if the rest of the world is as PC as America. For anyone who has been to Japan, how many times have you heard "NO Gaijin!" and gotten the big crossed arms? How long would that last in the US without a lawsuit?

That doesn't mean I think every muslim should be strip-searched at the airport, but I wouldn't feel bad to have the scholastic-achieving TSA utter the sentence: "sorry Mr. Abdul Husseini, but your one-way ticket to Blow-Up-Istan with NO checked or carry-on baggage seems a little suspect and we want to talk to you".

The behavioral profiling is already in place. But are you suggesting Richard Reid and Jose Padilla get waved through security while Fareed Zakaria and Zalmay Kalilzad take their shoes off?

Edit- on a less (MORE?) sarcastic note: I am COMPLETELY willing to risk being blown up in flight if I don't have to remove my shoes and/or other articles of clothing at the airport. God knows if that's what the bar has been raised to, the terrorists who REALLY have the determination, will come up with something that gets past that check. Fuck my shoes and belt. What's next? UNDIES??? Stop undressing me and get me the fuck through security!

On a last note.... why can't folks who have been investigated (FAAAAR more deeply than the TSA ever could) to get a security clearance be given a free pass through security? If 10s of thousands of dollars and months of background investigation have deemed me enough of a non-threat to give me access to information even YOU (the moron TSA agent) aren't privy to, why the fuck are YOU the authority on deeming me safe for flight? Ok, on the off chance the guy with the security clearance determines he has no barriers to pass through and bombs a plane? I'm willing to take that chance.

The security investigation process is to determine eligibility to hold classified material. It doesn't determine one's susceptibility to committing acts of mass murder, and I wouldn't want it used that way. And don't fool yourself. Unless you hold a TS (and I definitely don't want some TSA goon knowing who has TS eligibility) or have significant red flags on your record, there isn't "thousands of dollars" or "months of investigation" that go into getting a Secret; it's just a records check. DHS is already sticking its nose into the clearance process; they don't need another excuse to.

TSA is stupid, but injecting more layers to their screening won't help it.

 

[AirSpiral]

This make alot of sense to me. If I were a terrorist, who would I be more afraid of than unarmed citizens?

 

[Steve Wilkins]

I hate guns. They scare me. The 2nd Amendment should be repealed.

 

[Jim123]

Hehehe... Did serious cat got into the catnip before sitting down at computer to post on serious thread?

 

[Spekkio]

The security investigation process is to determine eligibility to hold classified material. It doesn't determine one's susceptibility to committing acts of mass murder, and I wouldn't want it used that way. And don't fool yourself. Unless you hold a TS (and I definitely don't want some TSA goon knowing who has TS eligibility) or have significant red flags on your record, there isn't "thousands of dollars" or "months of investigation" that go into getting a Secret; it's just a records check. DHS is already sticking its nose into the clearance process; they don't need another excuse to.

Back up...these acts aren't just acts of mass murder. The shooting on the LIRR back in the early 90's was mass murder. Columbine was mass murder. Driving a plane into the WTC and Pentagon is an act of war. Big difference. And yes, someone who screens for a clearance is unlikely to commit an act of war against the U.S, let alone anyone with a legit military ID.

I'll never forget the TSA idiot taking me aside to pat me down and questioning about my flip-key for my Mazda...while I'm in SDB's...on my way back from Arlington for my grandfather's funeral. They sure saved the day there.

 

[mmx1]

Back up...these acts aren't just acts of mass murder. The shooting on the LIRR back in the early 90's was mass murder. Columbine was mass murder. Driving a plane into the WTC and Pentagon is an act of war. Big difference. And yes, someone who screens for a clearance is unlikely to commit an act of war against the U.S, let alone anyone with a legit military ID.

I'll never forget the TSA idiot taking me aside to pat me down and questioning about my flip-key for my Mazda...while I'm in SDB's...on my way back from Arlington for my grandfather's funeral. They sure saved the day there.

Put aside your personal indignation for a second. So Nidal Hasan and Hasan Akbar should have gotten a free pass at the airport if they were in uniform? Or does being Muslim cancel out being in the military? I'm mildly amused that I have to go through security like every other peon, but I'd be concerned if I could just wave myself though with a military ID or by showing up in uniform. The military has its share of screwballs too; some of them are E-1's breaking rocks in Leavenworth. Others get out (honorably, even) and move on to grander things like blowing up federal buildings or shooting presidents.

 

[Steve Wilkins]

Hehehe... Did serious cat got into the catnip before sitting down at computer to post on serious thread?

Nah, just adding a bit of sarcasm to the mix.

 

[ryan1234]

"If I had to guess, twenty five cents, this would be exactly that," Bloomberg said. "Homegrown maybe a mentally deranged person or someone with a political agenda that doesn't like the health care bill or something. It could be anything."

"It is clear that the intent behind this terrorist act was to kill Americans," Holder said.


Sounds like two potential Nobel Peace Prize winners right there.... oh wait....here's what Bloomberg has to say about the NPP:

"They're going to win the next Nobel Prize in China or in Europe, not here. If we want to have a future, we need to have more immigrants here."

 

[eas7888]

"They're going to win the next Nobel Prize in China or in Europe, not here. If we want to have a future, we need to have more immigrants here."

New York needs more immigrants like I need Herpes.

 

[Spekkio]

Put aside your personal indignation for a second. So Nidal Hasan and Hasan Akbar should have gotten a free pass at the airport if they were in uniform? Or does being Muslim cancel out being in the military?

Well, they never attempted to hijack a plane and fly it into a skyscraper, now did they?

I'm mildly amused that I have to go through security like every other peon, but I'd be concerned if I could just wave myself though with a military ID or by showing up in uniform.

What you really should be concerned about is the gross lack of security at airports. You only have the illusion of security because everyone has to be inconvenienced to take off their belts and shoes, and god forbid you try to have a full tube of toothpaste in your carry-on.

 

[ryan1234]

What you really should be concerned about is the gross lack of security at airports. You only have the illusion of security because everyone has to be inconvenienced to take off their belts and shoes, and god forbid you try to have a full tube of toothpaste in your carry-on.

Not too long ago I actually accidently grabbed a flight bag that I had used for the range a long time ago. Forgot about the .308 ammo in the pouches... went through quite a few airport security screens (they even searched the bag several times) over the period of a couple months... nothin... until some older TSA gent pulled it out in an airport in KS.

Whoops... no big deal... they were very nice and professional about everything, just filed a report and 'escorted' me to the aircraft.

It is a little embarrassing when they find ammo in your carry-on.


('course it all made sense when I said I was opposed to the health-care bill - guess Bloomberg was right)

 

[Cron]

 

[BACONATOR]

Put aside your personal indignation for a second. So Nidal Hasan and Hasan Akbar should have gotten a free pass at the airport if they were in uniform? Or does being Muslim cancel out being in the military? I'm mildly amused that I have to go through security like every other peon, but I'd be concerned if I could just wave myself though with a military ID or by showing up in uniform. The military has its share of screwballs too; some of them are E-1's breaking rocks in Leavenworth. Others get out (honorably, even) and move on to grander things like blowing up federal buildings or shooting presidents.

Ok, don't get offended. Like I said, I don't think every muslim should be strip-searched. But let's face it... muslims are responsible for a GOOD many of the publicized attacks. And before you start regurgitating a lot of the "white" or "non-muslim" terrorists, dig a little deeper and realize that many of them were linked to muslim terrorist groups. I don't recall, but I think the LAX shooters or some other terrorist act was perpetrated by an asian terrorist. HOWEVER, that asian group was linked to an islamic terrorist group. So now the trigger-pullers are non-muslims hired by muslims. It's not a quantum leap to figure out why that would be. Islamic terrorists aren't stupid.

That being said, the Israelis DON'T simply profile based on race.. they are BEHAVIORAL profilers. I know you think I'm talking about taking aside anyone with a gutteral syllable in their last name, but no. Behavioral profiling is extremely effective, and if it happens to end up highlighting mostly muslims at the airport... it's probably for good reason.

Just to cover my ass. I'm not saying even a large percentage of Muslims are terrorists, but I AM saying that a large percentage of Terrorists are Muslim. At the very least "terrorists" as we define them today.

 

[JollyGood]

Ok, don't get offended. Like I said, I don't think every muslim should be strip-searched. But let's face it... muslims are responsible for a GOOD many of the publicized attacks. And before you start regurgitating a lot of the "white" or "non-muslim" terrorists, dig a little deeper and realize that many of them were linked to muslim terrorist groups. I don't recall, but I think the LAX shooters or some other terrorist act was perpetrated by an asian terrorist. HOWEVER, that asian group was linked to an islamic terrorist group. So now the trigger-pullers are non-muslims hired by muslims. It's not a quantum leap to figure out why that would be. Islamic terrorists aren't stupid.

That being said, the Israelis DON'T simply profile based on race.. they are BEHAVIORAL profilers. I know you think I'm talking about taking aside anyone with a gutteral syllable in their last name, but no. Behavioral profiling is extremely effective, and if it happens to end up highlighting mostly muslims at the airport... it's probably for good reason.

Just to cover my ass. I'm not saying even a large percentage of Muslims are terrorists, but I AM saying that a large percentage of Terrorists are Muslim. At the very least "terrorists" as we define them today.

From what I recall, I believe the LAX shooter was an Egyptian.

I think the terrorist act you might be thinking of is the Bali bombing in 2002? That was carried out by Islamic Indonesians.

Either way, I would love to see the security at the airport re-worked, since we can all agree that calling it inefficient is a gross understatement.

 

[eas7888]

<Random babbling>

Flying commercially is not a right, it is a privilege. When it comes to airport security, every person should be thoroughly searched and checked for any devices or substances that are harmful. If you don't want to subject yourself to that, then fly your own plane, or drive. Would it inconvenience people? Yes. Would it be without its faults? No, nothing is. Would it serve as a greater deterrent than the system we have in place now? Likely so.

The full body scanners have been in use in Iraq for years. Having worked with them personally, they are amazing at what they can and do find. This system alone could prevent numerous prohibited items from making it on the aircraft. Like all other methods, it's not foolproof and has to be used with common sense, behavioral monitoring, and other physical security measures.

In other circumstances, it can be very difficult to detect the danger someone poses until it's too late. The NYC/Time's Square incident being a good example. America has a wonderful deterrent in place, at least in most states: Their citizens are armed. This very basic principle, arming the population, is an easy way to keep the vast majority of the population in check. As with other methods, it has its flaws, but what NY has chosen to do is a perversion of power. Being able to defend one's self against people like this is a basic human right. I for one am not dumb enough to fight car bombs with fists and sticks. Give me a gun, and I might have a chance.

</Random babbling>