New Initiatives from SECNAV

[exNavyOffRec]

The problem you described sounds like a failure of the CPOs and 1st Classes to articulate proper expectations of professional performance.

Articulate the expectations, train them how to meet them, and then expect them to make every reasonable effort to meet the expectations of performance (professional and personal). When those few individuals who can't do that fail - hammer them.

I can only imagine the sentiment felt by (spitballing here) the other 95% of Sailors who are doing things right, yet have to blow to get into their workcenter. Its a trust issue - and this indicates of total lack of it.

Your right, what PhrogLoop was doing is what I was doing and other CPO's did that had squared away decisions, we would give them task that could realistically be done in the time alloted and followed up, we would stick to what we said we would do and stick up for our sailors when called for.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

I could not agree with you more...we had a shitty Chief's Mess and my efforts were an intentional way to communicate directly to my troops while delegating specific responsibilities to my Chief and First Class. PM me if you want details, but all the pain I imposed and documented saved my ass on 3 different occasions that deployment.

A shitty CPO mess is the fault of the CMC for not fixing it or the CO for not shit canning the CMC for failing to do his job, nothing pisses me off more than a crappy CPO mess because the junior guys pay dearly.

Part of the reason you see this is some guys make 7, 8 or 9 because they pushed the right buttons, I knew a guy that made Chief and the highest job he held at a sea going command was WCS as a E-5.

I tell my guys going to OCS that when they get to their first command they need to make sure he/she and the CPO are on the same page, and if they believe that have CPO that doesn't give a shit to talk to the dept LCPO or CMC otherwise they could be dragged down.

 

[BigIron]

the logistics and legality of this breathalyzer program are going to be very complicated. There's going to be instructions and messages and compliance and ASAP reports........

 

[scoober78]

Field tested throughout PACOM. Have also seen them handed out to liberty buddies leaving the ship.

Wow. I stand corrected.

Some good points here, but it all boils down to individuals making decisions. Its the same thing with DUIs - you can have all the training in the world, have free ride cards, have buddies out with each other, have safety stand downs with gory pictures, tell 'em about the fines - yadda yada yadda until you're blue in the face. Some dickhead is still going to go out and drive drunk. Do you see a DUI as an indicator of a program that has failed to execute well - like you do with the motorcycle statement above?

A DUI? No. Of course not. No program is perfect and as you said, there is always stupid. What I would consider a failure would be those DUI's not being sent to NJP etc...Someone please prove me wrong here, but, I have never seen a line of duty determination find a sailor "not in the line of duty" and deny TRICARE payment or SGLI in the event of a fatality where OPNAV requirements were clearly not met. That is a failed program. No stick in the carrot/stick method and under the table/jackass riding will occur more frequently than it has to because it's easier not to comply than it is to comply. That is a leadership failure.

 

[SkywardET]

Is ther any precedent for that here or in other countries who have had true nationalized healthcare? I don't know the answer to that, but I'd look at Canada, the UK and France. If those liberal bastions aren't resorting to those kinds of nanny-state tactics, I suspect we probably won't either. Anyone have experience with that?

No experience with this, but a quick search reveals a lot of Eurolunacy. Seriously, the whole region is seemingly on a "nanny state" binge. Salt under assault, water doesn't prevent dehydration, fat people cause global warming and should be taxed more, etc.

There indeed seem to be real consequences for nationalizing health services beyond simply the economic impacts.

 

[phrogpilot73]

BTW, anyone who remembers me from my wild child days (many of them documented) should feel free to call me out for sitting on a soap box saddle riding my high horse up to my ivory tower.

Hmmm... USNA was a long time ago, but I could dust off my recollections...

 

[Gatordev]

A shitty CPO mess is the fault of the CMC for not fixing it or the CO for not shit canning the CMC for failing to do his job, nothing pisses me off more than a crappy CPO mess because the junior guys pay dearly.

It's not quite that easy. Depending on who (ie, "what") the CMC is, there's a long road to "removing" them from the mess. Yes, I've seen a mess fracture and a front office trying to fix it, but it took time.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

It's not quite that easy. Depending on who (ie, "what") the CMC is, there's a long road to "removing" them from the mess. Yes, I've seen a mess fracture and a front office trying to fix it, but it took time.

Not saying it is easy, but shame on those that see it and do nothing.

 

[Brett327]

No experience with this, but a quick search reveals a lot of Eurolunacy. Seriously, the whole region is seemingly on a "nanny state" binge. Salt under assault, water doesn't prevent dehydration, fat people cause global warming and should be taxed more, etc.

There indeed seem to be real consequences for nationalizing health services beyond simply the economic impacts.

This is the same fluff that we see here in the media. It's the policies that matter, not what gets printed in the media. People love to engage in hyperbole on this topic, so in my mind if we can draw on the example of other more liberalized nations with nationalized healthcare, we might get some insight into what's possible/probable from a policy standpoint vice what a bunch of pundits (or politicians) are claiming will happen.

Last time I checked, the UK, Canada and France aren't putting restrictions on junk food, salt or fat as a condition for national health care coverage - not as a policy. If that's true, then it's not too likely that it will happen here. I understand the political value of such rhetoric, but I don't think the sky is falling quite yet.

Brett

 

[Angry]

Last time I checked, the UK, Canada and France aren't putting restrictions on junk food, salt or fat as a condition for national health care coverage - not as a policy. If that's true, then it's not too likely that it will happen here. I understand the political value of such rhetoric, but I don't think the sky is falling quite yet.

Brett

Another reason why its unlikely to happen here is because the vast majority of the electorate would "suffer" from the creation of those policies. The self-induced conditions contributing to higher healthcare costs across the country are choices made by voters (Big Mac or carrot sticks...hmmm) who don't want to be told what to do by anyone, least of all their Congressmen. Sure, everyone wants the government to pay for their healthcare bills when things go wrong, but what candidate is going to get elected to Congress on the platform of "I'm going to force you to be healthy by banning salt/sugar/fat, etc"?

 

[scoober78]

...but what candidate is going to get elected to Congress on the platform of "I'm going to force you to be healthy by banning salt/sugar/fat, etc"?

But what Congressional candidate gets elected because of a platform? What a cute idea...

 

[Recovering LSO]

But what Congressional candidate gets elected because of a platform? What a cute idea...

"Hope" sure seemed to resonate a couple of years ago. Now you might ask, "what kind of platform is hope?" I don't have a good answer for that

 

[phrogdriver]

The Proceedings article is spot on. I'd refer you to a similar article in the Gazette by some genious Marine offer in Mar 10, but the Gazette doesn't have publically accessible back issues.

I'm not buying the healthcare argument. That's mixing apples and oranges. This shouldn't become a healthcare debate, but ANY system, either more private or more public, would be better than what we have today, which is the worst of both worlds.

As with many things, let's start adhering to and enforcing the rules we already have before we start enacting new ones. This fiasco reminds me of the "interpretations" of uniform regs, wherein Sergeants Major invent rules that don't exist. We have plenty of rules already. Let's concentrate on those.

 

[lowflier03]

I've been trying to find a copy of an old memo on leadership that seems a bit appropriate now. It was written by the CNO just a few years prior to WWII. Short Version: In it he admonishes the admirals and higher level leaders to stop micromanaging and let individual CO's and under make the decisions at their level to get the job done and learn from mistakes before the Navy ended up in a war with Officers that had no idea how to think for themselves.

Anyone have a link or copy? It used to be posted on the walls of a few squadrons I flew with around the time that the responsibility vs authority mando read item went up.

 

[Pags]

I've been trying to find a copy of an old memo on leadership that seems a bit appropriate now. It was written by the CNO just a few years prior to WWII. Short Version: In it he admonishes the admirals and higher level leaders to stop micromanaging and let individual CO's and under make the decisions at their level to get the job done and learn from mistakes before the Navy ended up in a war with Officers that had no idea how to think for themselves.

Anyone have a link or copy? It used to be posted on the walls of a few squadrons I flew with around the time that the responsibility vs authority mando read item went up.

I think Lumpy posted it here a while back....Lumpy?