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NCR Parade Rumint

wink

War Hoover NFO.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Farmers don't want to pay market rate, because a white guy will demand much more than the federal or CA state minimum wage to pick strawberries in the sun -- which means higher prices and lower profits (if any at all).

Ain't capitalism great?
Yes, capitalism is great!! Remove the black market for labor, pay market labor rates let business determine the profit required to keep them in the business and pass on the costs to consumers. Consumers pay more, but in turn a black market in labor and exploitation is reduced. That means your immigrant neighbors are treated more fairly and fewer tax dollars go to social services for poorly paid immigrants and immigration law enforcement. It doesn't matter that farmers don't want to pay market rates. The point is, if they did not have an illegal labor pool to exploit they would HAVE to pay market rates. The alternative is immoral. Status quo means exploitation of an entire class of people, for what? profit, cheap lettuce. IT is not free market capitalism when labor is not purchased in a free market. Again, total B.S. ( maybe racist) trop white guys won't do the work for market rates. Lots of white guys working road crews around me in over 100 degrees. They are being paid a market rate because the government contract requires legal documented labor. As a youth I did work for a fair wage only undocumented do now. If paid fairly (whatever the market sets) to work in the sun at manual labor, anyone will do it. If not paid fairly, only undocumented black market labor will take it because they legally can't take their labor down the road for 3 /hr more in a legit job. Taking advantage of that is immoral. So yes, capitalism is great. The invisible hand can help improve our immigration problems.
 

Hair Warrior

Well-Known Member
Contributor
How much of a decrease in crop yields do you want and how high do you want to raise the price of beef, pork and chicken?
The US still imports beef, butter, and other products from countries like New Zealand and Ireland, where they have tighter agricultural rules and high shipping costs to the US, yet are still price-competitive on US grocery store shelves. Some US farmers actually find they save money and can raise more cattle on smaller acreage using regenerative practices. The bandaid of “Big Ag” will be painful to rip off but that doesn’t mean the bandaid is good for Americans.

 

JTS11

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Wink has fallen into the chasm between capitalism in theory vs capitalism in practice. I hope he isn’t injured too badly on the way down.
I mean the USDA estimates that 42% of crop workers are currently undocumented. I fail to see a foreseeable future where American citizens will flock to the California central valley to pick crops. It's a fantasy. There is no labor pool to replace these folks in that industry, or others. It's wishful thinking to think otherwise.
 

ChuckMK23

5 bullets veteran!
pilot
The HOA property maintenance here in this area is all done by migrants in mutually beneficial, benevolent relationships. There is no labor pool in this metro area otherwise. It works. No one is being harmed.
 

CommodoreMid

Whateva! I do what I want!
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
And we’re still going to import beef. Don’t feel like searching to find the article again, mainly because I can’t remember if it was WSJ or NYT, American ground beef consumption well outstrips the number of cows we have. These cows are great for steaks, but only a part of them are going to ground beef, simply due to, well, nature.
 

Griz882

Frightening children with the Griz-O-Copter!
pilot
Contributor
The HOA property maintenance here in this area is all done by migrants in mutually beneficial, benevolent relationships. There is no labor pool in this metro area otherwise. It works. No one is being harmed.
It isn’t about migrants doing the work…it is all about how and why they are here. We can keep the necessary workforce and allow them to be here legally in one status or another. While I won’t call illegal immigrants “innocent,” I also don’t blame the majority for seeking something better. It is Congress that has to make that system…and they don’t want to. In any case, open borders are a disaster for any free nation.
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
The ODS parade probably had near 200,000 in attendance. My hipshot guess is that this parade was closer to 100,000.

Closer to 800,000 for the Victory Parade in 1991, based on Metro trips and contemporary crowd estimates.

Can't be compared. Different point in our history, different reason, and most important, different President.

It is the literally the only contemporary comparison.
 

wink

War Hoover NFO.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I mean the USDA estimates that 42% of crop workers are currently undocumented. I fail to see a foreseeable future where American citizens will flock to the California central valley to pick crops. It's a fantasy. There is no labor pool to replace these folks in that industry, or others. It's wishful thinking to think otherwise.
I never said American citizens could replace all undocumented workers. I am arguing for an end to an immoral practice of taking advantage of a black market labor pool. In doing so wages would rise to a market rate that would tap a larger pool of legal labor willing to work at market rates. A one for one trade, no. That is not my argument. Having clarified that, could you clarify your position? Simply because such a large percentage of agricultural workers are undocumented, are you suggesting guest worker/ legal status and market wages isn't beneficial to society or the ag industry?
 

wink

War Hoover NFO.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Closer to 800,000 for the Victory Parade in 1991, based on Metro trips and contemporary crowd estimates.



It is the literally the only contemporary comparison.
OK. But an imperfect comparison for the obvious reasons.
 
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