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Navy Helo MEDEVAC Update 2515th Navy Air Ambulance Deatchment
- Thread starter ChuckMK23
- Start date
Hawkdriver81
New Member
Wow, the Navy is complaining about old helicopters, the Army complains about old helicopters... so where are the new ones?
Bobby, what unit are you with?
Bobby, what unit are you with?
I think those UH-60 Lima's are configured as DAP birds - so they have some formidable firepower. Multiple 30-mm Chain Gun, racks of four Hellfires and 2.75 in rocket pods, 40 mm grenade launcher or trainable GAU-2B 7.62 mm guns.
Not something I would want to mess with. Is it a Apache or Cobra? No - but pretty darned good in any case. Enough to keep the bad guy's heads down.
Not something I would want to mess with. Is it a Apache or Cobra? No - but pretty darned good in any case. Enough to keep the bad guy's heads down.
Hawkdriver81
New Member
I believe the only DAP birds are in the 160th and I doubt they do routine medevac escorts or at least I've never seen it. I've had to do Med Escort quite often recently and it is with a UH-60A or L with nothing but two 7.62 M240s. Its not a gunship but its such a waste for an Apache to follow a medevac bird when they could be out trying to prevent that medevac by providing escorts to convoys. Just my opinion.
Yea the Army ( CFLLC) wants at least two aircraft in a flight when flying in Indian country. We did the same thing with our med company up north. We had a aircraft and pilot take a golden bb and that was it.A few times I went out escorting med birds who can't be armed. All I had was my two M-240's. If it was possible H-64's escorted med birds. Our AOR was downtown and on many a day I'd see Army H-60's being escorted downtown by Marine AH-1's.
The DAPS birds are really reserved for different missions and probably wouldn't be utilized at in that role.
I also saw an article published about HS-4 sending two ships up to Basra. Good stuff. Looks like they were doing a lot of what we do up north. Lot of hash and trash, air assaults with some ISR mixed in. Nice to see more Navy helo bubbas getting into the fight.
I talked with a 160th buddy of mine a few days ago. He had mentioned that one of the HCS guys might be coming to their unit. It sounded like he might be tranfering over. But it might be a PEP. I know the Air Farce and Marines guys have a PEP with the 160th.
Hawkdriver81 I'm with the 3rd Heard ( ID) for a few more days. Then I'm out and will be flying HH-60's out in Cali as fulltime tech. I actually have my last flight tonight. I have many a friend who have made the move to the Air force and my old roomate fly's C-9 maybe c-40 know for the Navy. If you have enough fixed wing time then Air Guard SUPT is a great option. Two of my budds form my last unit just graduated the T-1 ( C-17) syllabus. If you need any info on those programs e-mail me at bobbybrock@hotmail.
The DAPS birds are really reserved for different missions and probably wouldn't be utilized at in that role.
I also saw an article published about HS-4 sending two ships up to Basra. Good stuff. Looks like they were doing a lot of what we do up north. Lot of hash and trash, air assaults with some ISR mixed in. Nice to see more Navy helo bubbas getting into the fight.
I talked with a 160th buddy of mine a few days ago. He had mentioned that one of the HCS guys might be coming to their unit. It sounded like he might be tranfering over. But it might be a PEP. I know the Air Farce and Marines guys have a PEP with the 160th.
Hawkdriver81 I'm with the 3rd Heard ( ID) for a few more days. Then I'm out and will be flying HH-60's out in Cali as fulltime tech. I actually have my last flight tonight. I have many a friend who have made the move to the Air force and my old roomate fly's C-9 maybe c-40 know for the Navy. If you have enough fixed wing time then Air Guard SUPT is a great option. Two of my budds form my last unit just graduated the T-1 ( C-17) syllabus. If you need any info on those programs e-mail me at bobbybrock@hotmail.
Hawkdriver81
New Member
I've heard that the 240 can hold its own. Don't get me wrong, its not a 30mm or a 2.75 HE but any crew served weapon will make someone think twice, that and nearly all Medevac calls have a ground patrol for security so between the two its not really that necessary to bring in the big guns.
I'm not sure of the exact regulations but no crew served weapons are allowed for anything bearing a red cross but they are allowed personal defense weapons so a M4, M9 etc...
I'm not sure of the exact regulations but no crew served weapons are allowed for anything bearing a red cross but they are allowed personal defense weapons so a M4, M9 etc...
Hawkdriver,
That pretty much is the reg.. On a side not to that marines don't have medics( use navy medics) because they can't be armed. Same applies to the Padre( chaplins).
That pretty much is the reg.. On a side not to that marines don't have medics( use navy medics) because they can't be armed. Same applies to the Padre( chaplins).
Hawkdriver81
New Member
Bobby, I don't think I've ever had the chance to fly with 3ID, I've always been coming when you've been going.
I'm happy you're moving on to better things (hopefully). Careful on your last flight though you always hear stories...
My rotary wing time should be just over 2000 hours after this deployment but alas I have no fixed wing time. I do plan on leaving the Army if an upcoming assessment doesn't work out but I'm hoping for something a little faster with bigger guns (yes, JETS!). Do you have any contacts in the regular Air Force not the Air Guard?
I'm happy you're moving on to better things (hopefully). Careful on your last flight though you always hear stories...
My rotary wing time should be just over 2000 hours after this deployment but alas I have no fixed wing time. I do plan on leaving the Army if an upcoming assessment doesn't work out but I'm hoping for something a little faster with bigger guns (yes, JETS!). Do you have any contacts in the regular Air Force not the Air Guard?
Hawkdriver,
Yea I know the deal. Tonight is just an APART. Two IP's with over 8000 in the cockpit. Knock on wood.
I have a bud from college who is an active F-15 IP out at Nellis so I'll see what the deal is. The thing is with that process you are going to have to start from scratch, OCS, UPT then your specific airframe. In the guard you can get an IRR commission ( just paper work) or AMS ( air guards 6 week commissioning program) and SUPT which is must shorter than UPT and you get treated like a grown up. Most of the guys going through SUPT are 0-3 and 0-4 helo bubbas from the Navy and Marines and Armyy helo guys who are going to fly fixed wing for the air guard. You can always try to intergrate into the regular Air Force after the process.
Yea I know the deal. Tonight is just an APART. Two IP's with over 8000 in the cockpit. Knock on wood.
I have a bud from college who is an active F-15 IP out at Nellis so I'll see what the deal is. The thing is with that process you are going to have to start from scratch, OCS, UPT then your specific airframe. In the guard you can get an IRR commission ( just paper work) or AMS ( air guards 6 week commissioning program) and SUPT which is must shorter than UPT and you get treated like a grown up. Most of the guys going through SUPT are 0-3 and 0-4 helo bubbas from the Navy and Marines and Armyy helo guys who are going to fly fixed wing for the air guard. You can always try to intergrate into the regular Air Force after the process.
zero
Registered User
hscs,
I agree, M240's are a marginal step above a slingshot...perhaps "an official Red Ryder carbine action two-hundred shot range model air rifle with a compass in the stock and this thing that tells time", but I've come to realize that there's more politics here than DC (if that's possible). Also, having the 3rd AC eliminates the need to pop the scupper and load my M11 or better, pop the whole window and lock and load the M16 in the event that they're needed.
Something that I'm learning is that what we learn in flight school and that tactics manual isn't necessarily what happens in theater, and since things here don't have to make sense to happen, I've found myself pressing the 'I believe' button more and more often.
As for the M240 holding it's own, yea, it's not too bad for keeping heads down, but it could be like throwing a rock at a bee hive depending on what the bees are armed with and how many there are.
ChuckMk23, (Red cross = don't shoot me) yea, if your a subscriber to NATO policy and rules, but I'm 100% certain that the bad guys aren't proponents of that school of thought.
As for hscs comments about waiting until the MEDEVAC bird arrives for fun and games...yes.
I agree, M240's are a marginal step above a slingshot...perhaps "an official Red Ryder carbine action two-hundred shot range model air rifle with a compass in the stock and this thing that tells time", but I've come to realize that there's more politics here than DC (if that's possible). Also, having the 3rd AC eliminates the need to pop the scupper and load my M11 or better, pop the whole window and lock and load the M16 in the event that they're needed.
Something that I'm learning is that what we learn in flight school and that tactics manual isn't necessarily what happens in theater, and since things here don't have to make sense to happen, I've found myself pressing the 'I believe' button more and more often.
As for the M240 holding it's own, yea, it's not too bad for keeping heads down, but it could be like throwing a rock at a bee hive depending on what the bees are armed with and how many there are.
ChuckMk23, (Red cross = don't shoot me) yea, if your a subscriber to NATO policy and rules, but I'm 100% certain that the bad guys aren't proponents of that school of thought.
As for hscs comments about waiting until the MEDEVAC bird arrives for fun and games...yes.
Hawkdriver81
New Member
I like my M240s 
now if we still have M60s then I will concede...
My argument with having an Apache or Cobra escort is that they wouldn't be needed on every Medevac mission since an assessment can be made prior to launch and the correct airframe can be added to the mission given the enemy situation on the ground. For the most part it would be more than enough to send an H60 with you or have a few 58's meet you at the LZ. Its about blade time and resources. For every Apache following a set of aircraft is one Apache that the ground troops can't make better use of. Personally I cringe everytime I see an Apache in an escort mission.
HSCS, a question that I saw earlier in the thread. With your tail wheel being so far up the tail boom... how are those dust landings treating you? I can imagine the Udari range can be a little bit stressful 0% illum.
now if we still have M60s then I will concede... My argument with having an Apache or Cobra escort is that they wouldn't be needed on every Medevac mission since an assessment can be made prior to launch and the correct airframe can be added to the mission given the enemy situation on the ground. For the most part it would be more than enough to send an H60 with you or have a few 58's meet you at the LZ. Its about blade time and resources. For every Apache following a set of aircraft is one Apache that the ground troops can't make better use of. Personally I cringe everytime I see an Apache in an escort mission.
HSCS, a question that I saw earlier in the thread. With your tail wheel being so far up the tail boom... how are those dust landings treating you? I can imagine the Udari range can be a little bit stressful 0% illum.
Yeah, I just figured that there would be more to cover you - I would take a 58 over another 60.
Zero -- you talked about the classic American way of fighting. We have our doctrine -- and then we have the way that we really fight.
Hawkdriver -- I don't work Udari right now -- I work other areas. The tailwheel issue really has to deal with not getting hot in low. If you pull the nose up to high in low to slow down you will drag the stab. Otherwise, the landings low light landings are just as stressful as a Blackhawk style tailwheel.
Zero -- you talked about the classic American way of fighting. We have our doctrine -- and then we have the way that we really fight.
Hawkdriver -- I don't work Udari right now -- I work other areas. The tailwheel issue really has to deal with not getting hot in low. If you pull the nose up to high in low to slow down you will drag the stab. Otherwise, the landings low light landings are just as stressful as a Blackhawk style tailwheel.