Navy Dedicated SAR Squadrons

[Meyerkord]

If I was a 30 year old Navy LT again and looking to leave at MSR, I would seriously pursue the Air Guard/Air Reserve Tech GS-12 (and O-3) route with AF flying helos. It seems to be a tremendous opportunity and exciting work. Plan B would be DCA with USCG.

I’m the 30 (+1) year old LT you’re describing. Not necessarily set on getting out but I’m considering all my options and I’ve looked at both of these. What excites you most about the AF helo gig? I honestly don’t know a whole lot about their lifestyle so I’m curious if you’ve heard anything

 

[Griz882]

I’m the 30 (+1) year old LT you’re describing. Not necessarily set on getting out but I’m considering all my options and I’ve looked at both of these. What excites you most about the AF helo gig? I honestly don’t know a whole lot about their lifestyle so I’m curious if you’ve heard anything

I’d think the following are pluses…
1. One base for as long as you want it.
2. Real world SAR missions (and dangerous - read A Perfect Storm).
3. Well defined pay with military rank structure but no demanding promotion gates).
4. Pick your coast.. ANG units in CA (near SF) and NY (Long Island). Or go AF Reserve and have a few other choices.

 

[Uncle Fester]

The RT/ART position construct is one thing I really wish the Navy would consider adopting off of the Army/AF/Guard. Seems enormously beneficial for both the service and the individual.

 

[MIDNJAC]

How you responded is how I treated my flight school selection.

But as an instructor from 2016-19 in CNATRA, I would say the vast majority of students were doing what they could to set themselves up for the airlines. I understood CNATRA’s frustration with IPs bitching about the Navy and constantly talking about their airlines, thus jading SNAs before they even started.

I'm not really big on talking about the airlines with the kids. They have a whole career to have yet, and it shouldn't be (IMO) what they are thinking about. It's a great option when they move on to the next chapter, but it isn't my place to advise them on that decision, and it is entirely premature at this point of their careers anyway.

 

[MIDNJAC]

I know we're on the same page with the discussion, but I think basing everything on what could happen in the 121 world is a misnomer and the 121 guys tend to get myopic about that world. It's kind of like saying to a successful local business owner that it's great he's making solid money, but if he were an executive at a major corporation, he'd make even more. Sure, but it's not quite that simple. Plus, maybe that local business owner doesn't want the "costs" of that higher paying job.

A typical career helo guy won't be immediately competitive for an airline. Yes, it's currently relatively easy to make the transition, but it's not immediate and it's not straight to the majors. Some will have a faster path if they did VTs, but that's a smaller overall group. I think Navy fixed-wing guys don't immediate recognize that even if they know it intellectually.

In the end, we each have our own priorities and MIDNJAC, I know you totally get this. So like you, me, and others have said, keep your mind open and explore the possibilities and choose the path that sounds interesting.

100% to all you say. And like I think I mentioned, 121 life isn't all green grass, and it also certainly isn't for everyone. Hell, I'm at the start of my second month in a row of "trying to actually fly a full airline schedule" (approaching the end of my second year no less). It is a grind at times. I drive 2 hrs each way to the mothership to get to work, and if I am not working weekends, there is probably a redeye involved at some point of a trip.......or maybe a 1XX seniority CA that nobody wanted to fly with. It's probably less the "this is hard" perspective we all got in the military, as much as it is "this is going to be every month for the next 18 years" realization. It's a lot of missed birthdays, holidays, special events, etc. I'd imagine other types of pro pilots don't have quite the same situation.

 

[DanMa1156]

I'm not really big on talking about the airlines with the kids. They have a whole career to have yet, and it shouldn't be (IMO) what they are thinking about. It's a great option when they move on to the next chapter, but it isn't my place to advise them on that decision, and it is entirely premature at this point of their careers anyway.

Agreed.

Nonetheless, I think, unfortunately, a lot of SNAs are being exposed to pretty bitter IPs these days. I don’t blame the IPs for their bitterness particularly with PERS shenanigans going on, but I do blame them for their unprofessionalism in front of students (certainly not all are like that).

 

[MIDNJAC]

Agreed.

Nonetheless, I think, unfortunately, a lot of SNAs are being exposed to pretty bitter IPs these days. I don’t blame the IPs for their bitterness particularly with PERS shenanigans going on, but I do blame them for their unprofessionalism in front of students (certainly not all are like that).

Not a fan of that either. Haven't really seen it here fortunately, but that is poor form. I occasionally get a question from a Cone about it, but generally not the "I am trying to join the show, how do I?" type. If they did, I'd probably give them the "you have owe about 300,000 hours of studying tactics before you can ask these questions" business

 

[LAMPS Ninja]

I’m the 30 (+1) year old LT you’re describing. Not necessarily set on getting out but I’m considering all my options and I’ve looked at both of these. What excites you most about the AF helo gig? I honestly don’t know a whole lot about their lifestyle so I’m curious if you’ve heard anything

Depends on your appetite for deployment. My shore tour was an exchange at their "school house" (FRS), and they were on a steady rotation of being home for 4 months and deployed for 4 months when I left (10 yrs ago, for what it's worth). Perhaps that has slowed down since we got out of Afghanistan, but the part about deployment tempo probably isn't in the brochure. It was a very interesting assignment, and my deployment was the most meaningful one of my entire career, but it was very different from HSL/HSM in just about every possible way. It's a very tight-knit community, and they take it very seriously and have fun doing it.

I enjoyed working and flying with most of them, and the reservists/guardsmen that rolled through the FRS or were with deployed with me were no different. I looked into the inter-service transfer, but they weren't taking AD helo pilots at the time. Never really looked into the reserve/ANG angle because I had a good deal flying with the Navy Reserve that didn't involve spending half my time getting shot at on deployment.

 

[Gatordev]

It's probably less the "this is hard" perspective we all got in the military, as much as it is "this is going to be every month for the next 18 years" realization. It's a lot of missed birthdays, holidays, special events, etc. I'd imagine other types of pro pilots don't have quite the same situation.

Maybe. My primary onwing, who I bumped back into towards the end of his military career and stayed in touch with for a while, said to me about helo flying: it doesn't matter the job, you're going to be gone for half the year. Ironically, he went to Pegasus (in a fixed-wing job) for a while and was probably gone for more than that.

It's a little bit of an over-simplification, but he has a point. I think for a lot of professional pilots, regardless of aircraft category, his point holds true, at least for a while. While I'm very fortunate to have a job where I can sleep in my bed every day (other than training trips), I still have a 14 hour commute every week, and that eats into my "me time" too.

 

[RobLyman]

I’d think the following are pluses…
1. One base for as long as you want it.
2. Real world SAR missions (and dangerous - read A Perfect Storm).
3. Well defined pay with military rank structure but no demanding promotion gates).
4. Pick your coast.. ANG units in CA (near SF) and NY (Long Island). Or go AF Reserve and have a few other choices.

Just to add...
On #1, be careful about the Army Reserve. They will move you. I know a few that got moved out of Clearwater after leaving the FLARNG in Brooksville and working a few years in the reserves.

If you become an IP in the National Guard(may apply to reserves as well), you can be a GS-13...even as a warrant. Also, AGR is a possibility. I did both.

If you want to fly forever or at least until your medical wears out, warrant officer is a good gig. The pay is slightly less to start, but a CW4 with enough years makes as much as a maxed out O4...more if you count flight pay. Flight pay for a warrant does NOT get reduced. On the GS side, you'll make as much as most O3s and O4s, maybe more. There are also opportunities to double dip, sort of. As a GS-12 or GS-13, you'll get paid time off to do AT. Earning comp time or using your own vacation during MUTA5+ or AFTPs can really increase your $$$. When I first joined, I flew over 250 hours a year and maxed out on my AFTPs. I was very busy as the only qualified HH-60M MTP in the state at a time when we (and the rest of the Army) were fielding brand new aircraft.

 

[HuggyU2]

The Air National Guard has three SAR Wings: Long Island, Moffett Field, and Anchorage. I believe all three fly the HC-130 and the HH-60G.

With their A2A refueling capability, they can effect rescues as far as ~1,000 nm offshore.

 

[JTS11]

The Air National Guard has three SAR Wings: Long Island, Moffett Field, and Anchorage. I believe all three fly the HC-130 and the HH-60G.

With their A2A refueling capability, they can effect rescues as far as ~1,000 nm offshore.

That's a lot of "must plugs", with potentially no good diverts. Sporty stuff.

 

[Griz882]

That's a lot of "must plugs", with potentially no good diverts. Sporty stuff.

No, seriously, read Junger’s “The Perfect Storm: A True Story of Men Against the Sea”, The whole book is great but the parts about the HH-60 rescue crew out of Long Island is something else.

 

[SynixMan]

After winging and selecting Sierras this past September, definitely seems like station SAR is the dream assignment, at least to me. Flying up in the mountains is exactly the type of flying that draws me in.

Flight School and FRS instructors seem to be lined up in saying Guam Exped squadron does the most SAR when it comes to numbers of rescues.

Sitting at 10 years time in service right now so not TOO concerned about not hitting 20 after MSR. I hear a lot of people talking about transferring to the Coast Guard after MSR and possibly even beforehand? Although a second Inter-Service Transfer in my career would definitely bring back the pokemon "collect them all" jokes.
If I had to pick a location for Coast Guard though, would definitely pick Traverse City, MI, Kodiak, AK, or somewhere in Florida.

Circling back to this. A couple points:

-Don't go to Guam just because you want to "do SAR". Yes they do stand SAR Alert and get more rescues. However, it's an island in the pacific (good and bad, but isolating), their deployments are different, and you're (for better or worse) far away from the motherships of North Island and Norfolk. I knew a lot of people who went there and couldn't wait to leave.
-Norfolk, North Island, and Japan are actually all good places.
-You'll learn more in the fleet, but last I heard (and it'll change again I'm sure), you have to "self select" out of production jobs like FRS/VT/HT before you could apply for Station SAR. This is a risk and you could end up at a desk. I'll say VT IP was some of the most fun flying I did and really rewarding, plus you get to manifest being the instructor you wanted to fly with. I still keep in touch with a handful of my on wings and offer them the occasional career advice.
-I launched on SARs off the boat, but never got a save. I don't consider my helo career less than because of it.
-As others have mentioned, Coast Guard DCA is a tightrope walk with a lot of "maybes" and you've got 8 years of MSR to run out before then. Total YOS might be an issue you can't get a waiver for. Things can absolutely change between now and then with regards to manning, but at the moment PERS won't let you go a day earlier than they have to, and they're using every tool in the box to send and keep people on the boat.
-Copy and paste the above for ANG/AF Reserve. My neighbor (former HSM, VT IP, now 121 pilot and VT Reservist) has been "accepted" to the local KC-135 unit for 9 months now and still waiting for paperwork from AF HQ. Likely not a primary plan unfortunately, unless you find a gig in the meantime.
-With 121 hiring, HEMS and LE helicopter flying is opening up more, might be worth considering
-No idea what things will look like in 8-10 years when you get close to 20, but settling down somewhere you choose and flying turns to the Caribbean for spring break or Europe might sound nice. Endless moves and deployments take their toll, even if there's fun mixed in.

Regardless of all of the above, enjoy your first sea tour wherever you end up. There's literally nothing like it.

 

[SteveHolt!!!]

-You'll learn more in the fleet, but last I heard (and it'll change again I'm sure), you have to "self select" out of production jobs like FRS/VT/HT before you could apply for Station SAR. This is a risk and you could end up at a desk. I'll say VT IP was some of the most fun flying I did and really rewarding, plus you get to manifest being the instructor you wanted to fly with. I still keep in touch with a handful of my on wings and offer them the occasional career advice.

Changed slightly. Noms put in for all options (production and not) at the same time. There are still career implications for station sar instead of production.