Naval Aviations "One" Problem...

[Fallonflyr]

El Toro was awesome in the 80’s and early 90’s. Ended up in Fallon and still there 30 years later. If you enjoy an outdoor life style, you will be able to make the most of it. If your wife needs malls and traffic, probably won’t be for you.

 

[AllAmerican75]

I don't expect the Navy to completely bend over backwards for the defense attorneys. It's the military and there are inherent sacrifices. But the instability of the military and some atrocious duty stations is disruptive to a lot of careers, particularly those that require licensing. And while remote work has grown significantly, you're still overselling it as a panacea. I have had great difficulty finding a remote/hybrid job in my chosen industry because I'm living somewhere professionally disadvantageous, but good for my wife's career. But we can actually have discussions about professional trade offs because an unknown variable isn't going to fly into my inbox from Millington.

If the Navy believes or knows that there is a recruitment and manning issue, they have to address all factors. I know people whose spouses had careers that were disrupted by PCS moves to places like Fallon. Those moves cost the families six figures in lost earnings which is a big number to a lot of people. And their skillset didn't translate into the remote work options, and there weren't opportunities in the new duty station. Sure they could go work at a Starbucks. But at the very least, it would have been nice for that factor to be included in either the detailing discussion or decision. And I'm not talking about someone who curates a basketweaving museum or something uber niche.

Now, everything I'm saying is anecdata. So perhaps I'm overselling the issue. Or the Navy is addressing it. But the question is often brought up about why do people leave the Navy, and this element is a big one in my mind.

EDIT

I will note that my community had better luck than most when it came to stability and spousal careers. Plenty of folks who have stayed in one spot for ~12 years before they PCS to a new duty station. But that's more happenstance than anything else.

Look, you're never going to eliminate the bad deal orders or the fact that our jobs take us to terrible places. Could detailing be better? Yes. Will it ever be perfect? Absolutely Not. Could detailers try harder? I don't think so. The best thing we could do is extend tours and try and homestead people more but that requires changing the Golden Path™ for command and promotion. There's only so much that can be done.

As I said before, this is part and parcel with serving in the military and always has been. It's why military couples need to have very serious discussions about the realities of the job and what it entails for spouses. This exists on the civilian side as well for cops, ER doctors, firefighters, linemen, civil infrastructure technicians, IT and networking technicians for datacenters and whatnot, and many more. It sucks but that's the way the world is.

Anecdotes can still be valuable data and I don't think you're overselling it. In my case (admittedly a couple of years time-late), the Navy did address it by saying, "Well, that's not my problem. That doesn't factor into the detailing."

I believe it's all very community dependent. As a SWO, they would as for my top 20 choices and then give me #25. We actually had an entire YG of Dept Heads who got their orders changed on them once they got to DH School. It was brutal.

As an EDO, the community tried to bend over backwards to help accommodate my family situation. In the end, I realized the Needs of the Navy were such that even the best duty station available would screw things up for me personally and jumped ship to SELRES but that's not my Detailers' fault.

I'm not sure who the Marine general was that snookered the Navy into abandoning Miramar in the 90's, but I thank him.

Glad I was never stationed at MCAS El Centro.

Jokes aside, it seems like the DoD/Congress as a whole needs to step up its game on base infrastructure. Never been to Lemoore, but from the comments it sounds bleak.

I believe it was all part of the deal to BRAC both El Toro and Long Beach Naval Shipyard.

I've heard good things about El Toro and Tustin.

Never been, but I'm sure they're better than New River. Just waiting for an advertisement from a TV lawyer to collect on a class-action settlement due to the water supply.😆

El Toro was awesome. I remember going there for one of their last air shows as a kid. I also went to the last Navy Day that LBNSY ever threw.

I was and am a China Lake fan. Make it through a year, and the desert gets into the blood.

Hell no! Screw the desert. The best duty stations in California are either Point Mugu, Port Hueneme, or NSWC Corona. They're hidden gems.

 

[Hotdogs]

So, your assertion that fixing the human capital problem should be our #1 focus as a nation right now and will make substantive contributions to labor force numbers, taxes, debt & deficits? Are you satisfied that the manner in which we are conducting immigration policy in this country is appropriate and necessary?

Why are you so angry at Boomers?

Not to continue threadjacking this thing, but demographic change is a large reason why we are in our current predicament. If you want to solve the deficit - then we need to pay more attention to it. As fas as immigration policy - Lots of solutions going back at least the last 10 years. Not a lot of political will - even when each party controlled both houses of congress. Immigration is not a silver bullet by any means, but could help reduce the demographic impacts as discussed earlier.

Lastly, every developed country is going through this same issue to a degree - However, the US is way and above in a better situation that anyone else. Largely because of immigration and our boomers had more kids. Not angry at the boomers at all - Just stating the facts of where the country is at right now.

 

[robav8r]

This is probably a dumb question because I know literally nothing about UAV… do they need someone in the local area to control the UAV for more “dynamic” parts of flight like takeoff/landing/maneuvering due to latency from being half way across the world? Or can it truly be done 100% remote?

I'll let a VUP-19 bubba answer your question specifically. I may have a few ppt slides during my time at N98. One of the interesting things that arose was/is the complexity of the network from the control stations in Jax to the A/C while flying. The N2/N6 folks struggled with a host of issues, not the least of which was trying to identify anomalies, and their specific location in the network. I had no idea how much of the terrestrial network is owned by private corporations (VZ/ATT, etc).

Old article - but discusses the main operating base at NAS Jax.

 

[Brett327]

Carrier Aviation (TACAIR) will be a 50/50 Blended Flight Deck of manned/unmanned aircraft in the future

Depends on how you define "future." There remains a tremendous amount of very aspirational thinking in how those goals are achieved - particularly with the looming budget constraints.

 

[ChuckMK23]

This is probably a dumb question because I know literally nothing about UAV… do they need someone in the local area to control the UAV for more “dynamic” parts of flight like takeoff/landing/maneuvering due to latency from being half way across the world? Or can it truly be done 100% remote?

MQ-9 Pilots Learn To Take Off and Land Via Satellite in ACE Push

MQ-9 Reaper drone student operators are now trained to land and take off via satellite, which shrinks the footprint of Reaper operations.

www.airandspaceforces.com

 

[Fins Out]

Detailers can absolutely try harder. I lined up a post DH job with the blessing of the O6 CO. I then showed that correspondence to my detailer who didn't even acknowledge it and said I would only be eligible for these "critical billets" that I had zero interest in filling. I emailed the O6, he went to Placement, and I got those orders I wanted.

Bottom line, the detailer is only your advocate when their plan lines up with yours, not the other way around. Always work your next set of orders on the side and present BUPERS with your plan. If you find yourself in the same situation I did, have your desired future command work with placement.

 

[Odominable]

I've only been there on pre-employment workups, like most. Great training environment, especially when alcohol was allowed in the huts...

I do remember stories of dudes with families planning their PCS drives onto base at night...bc that's a long drive into nothing, and didn't want their wife to cry.

It's just like any change though. Some dudes get into the desert lifestyle.

It's still SoCal baby!

Same re: workups, but saw enough of mainside to be relatively impressed with. The new gym would make some D1 programs envious. And yes, there’s really nothing like sweaty post debrief beers in the kspans!

 

[taxi1]

Point Mugu,

I liked it there too. Kind of an odd “middle of nowhere” vibe considering its proximity to Los Angeles. Great surfing too at a private break.

 

[AllAmerican75]

I liked it there too. Kind of an odd “middle of nowhere” vibe considering its proximity to Los Angeles. Great surfing too at a private break.

Ventura County is the best part of California

 

[AllAmerican75]

I'll let a VUP-19 bubba answer your question specifically. I may have a few ppt slides during my time at N98. One of the interesting things that arose was/is the complexity of the network from the control stations in Jax to the A/C while flying. The N2/N6 folks struggled with a host of issues, not the least of which was trying to identify anomalies, and their specific location in the network. I had no idea how much of the terrestrial network is owned by private corporations (VZ/ATT, etc).

Old article - but discusses the main operating base at NAS Jax.

Those networking issues are not necessarily a corporate issue. Let's just say that the DoN and the larger DISA network are extremely complicated and set up in such a way as to make troubleshooting nearly impossible.

 

[Brett327]

Those networking issues are not necessarily a corporate issue. Let's just say that the DoN and the larger DISA network are extremely complicated and set up in such a way as to make troubleshooting nearly impossible.

As an aside, and I'm not exactly sure how to express this as a relatively lay IT person, but I'm wondering if it's possible to design a computer network that isn't subject to a never-ending stream of vulnerabilities, patching, scanning, cybersecurity requirements, etc. Let's throw out Ethernet, routers, TCP/IP and the entire OSI model and start from scratch. We spend so much time and energy with cybersecurity. Seems like we should be striving for better solutions.

 

[JTS11]

Detailers can absolutely try harder. I lined up a post DH job with the blessing of the O6 CO. I then showed that correspondence to my detailer who didn't even acknowledge it and said I would only be eligible for these "critical billets" that I had zero interest in filling. I emailed the O6, he went to Placement, and I got those orders I wanted.

Bottom line, the detailer is only your advocate when their plan lines up with yours, not the other way around. Always work your next set of orders on the side and present BUPERS with your plan. If you find yourself in the same situation I did, have your desired future command work with placement.

I think this is good advice; however, I will add some caveats or a counterpoint from the detailer perspective. In theory, the detailer should have a global and dispassionate view of staffing billets. In theory.

Meaning, there may be a demand signal for MOS X with certain quals. Those billets have to be filled by a potentially limited population. The job you've worked a drug deal for, may be filled easily by another MOS that has excess supply.

Also, the detailer has to be fair WRT managing burden sharing and other equities (ie. operational/deploying tours vs non-deploying tours...WTIs can't be horded on just one coast...etc)

All that said, your advice is still spot on. I'm only pointing out reasons why "the man" may intervene on the drug deal.

 

[CorsairDriver]

Depends on how you define "future." There remains a tremendous amount of very aspirational thinking in how those goals are achieved - particularly with the looming budget constraints.

Yep. Most don't understand the complexity of what they are asking for with coupled-up, unmanned wingmen since their iPhone can do everything to keep them satisfied on the toilet. I maintain that Naval Aviation will only be rejuvenated when all enemies can no longer use secure data transfer and secure datalink because everyone knows the exploits ... not to discount the reverse engineering that will occur as we lose those physical assets in a combat theatre. Hopefully we can maintain the ability to produce ships, aircraft and munitions once these areas are compromised so they aren't simply obsolete upon design. That's WHY defense of that domain should receive tons of funding.

Can we stay ahead there ... maybe, but it'll be at tremendous costs with the current U.S. mentality. Will we still need highly competent Aviators in the Cockpit? You bet, but NETC isn't doing us any favors by Nuke Drafting our smartest, most capable kids that already have FAA Certifications then designing their next NIFE Class to meet some woke demographic quota. At some point in the very near future, they are going to run out of the required guts and intelligence at the same time.

Will they ever have a budget line to replace the T-45 with another "Carrier Capable" Trainer ... nope. They'll trust in PLM and no longer the required aviation skills.

 

[robav8r]

Those networking issues are not necessarily a corporate issue. Let's just say that the DoN and the larger DISA network are extremely complicated and set up in such a way as to make troubleshooting nearly impossible.

Yeah, I know. I didn't want to get too much in the weeds . . .