NAMI MOTION SICKNESS QUESTION, NPQ?

[BENDER]

Forgive me for posting another question that I know has been discussed numerous times, however I think that this specific circumstance hasn’t been talked about, or at least I can’t find a thread that discuses it. I’m currently pushing into my 5th week at OCS so my research capabilities are very limited as I only have a computer to send email. My fiancé is actually posting this.

My question is in regards to the consequences of admitting being airsick once before on the flight physical. I wanted to be truthful to NAMI, so I admitted to being airsick once before a few years ago. The flight surgeon asked me to fill out a form that asked various questions about modes of motion sickness I have experienced. I only have experience motion sickness once, and that was in the back of a Citabria going through some aerobatic maneuvers. I explained all that and included that I have plenty of flight time where motion sickness was never a problem, including aerobatic maneuvers.

The flight surgeon said I would probably be NPQ for jets, limiting me to the helicopter pipeline. He would have to get back with me. A few days after the physical, another officer candidate (NFO) and I were talking and it turns out he’s in the same boat, though his flight surgeon said he would be most likely be NPQ all together. I’m sure our situations vary a little, but from the way he was describing it, it’s pretty much the same as mine.

Doing some research I found this:

Navy: Aircrew with intractable airsickness are not physically qualified (NPQ), no waiver. However, there is a Self-Paced Airsickness Desensitization (SPAD) program available at the Naval Aerospace Medical Institute (NAMI) which is an option prior to permanent grounding. If the airsickness interferes with performance in flight, the patient will be evaluated by the flight surgeon to rule out medical causes (neurovestibular) and then referred to NAMI if appropriate. The majority of aircrew become habituated to the stimuli and do not require treatment other than regular flying. Others may benefit from a combination of desensitization, biofeedback training, relaxation training and psychological counseling. Promethazine (Phenergan) 25 mg combined with dextroamphetamine (Dexedrine) 5 mg taken one hour prior to flight is permitted for up to three flights during training, provided the patient is accompanied in flight by an instructor pilot. If symptoms recur following discontinuation of medication, this is the appropriate time for referral to the SPAD program at NAMI.

Does this concern aircrew that are already in the fleet, or applicants also? Can anyone enlighten me a little about what to expect? Knowing a little in advance on the reality of the situation can help me plan accordingly. I didn’t think this would be a big deal, but since hearing about a Candio being NPQ for shin splints and pilots dropping like flies around here, I’m now concerned.

Another question, I had runners knee about 4 months before I classed up for OCS. I told him that I had it but now it’s gone and fine. I never missed a PT session and run in the front of the class with no problem. Does anyone know if this will be an issue since it was resolved?

Any help will be appreciated. Thank you

 

[wlawr005]

People get airsick all the time, there is an in house program to address it in flight school. Most people get over it, some even continue on to jets. If you've logged some flight time without being sick you probably shouldn't worry about it.

 

[yakboyslim]

To back that up, it should be handled in training. I know plenty of people who got airsick enough to be a problem, most continued to what they wanted with some help, some got switched out of jets. I don't know anyone who got cut completely, though I know it has to happen if people can't get over it and are getting sick every flight. A lot of people get airsick too, just matters how often and when. You'll be fine.

 

[picklesuit]

Not sure why that would be an issue before flight school, we get a LOT of airsickness in the VT's (including me) and they have programs to deal with that. Good on you for being honest, however in the future, if you have to really work to find a "yes" answer on anything dealing with the FS, the answer is probably no...
I'd ask the FS for reference/documentation if he "thinks" you'd be NPQ to start working it early.
Pickle

 

[yakboyslim]

Are the flight surgeons in Newport actually flight surgeons? I remember calling them that, but I don't think they are. Not that they are any less of doctors, just I don't think they know all the flight stuff cold. I really don't think you can be NPQ'd for it before getting to training.

 

[LFCFan]

Are the flight surgeons in Newport actually flight surgeons? I remember calling them that, but I don't think they are. Not that they are any less of doctors, just I don't think they know all the flight stuff cold. I really don't think you can be NPQ'd for it before getting to training.

I know at least one of them isn't - which is probably the one that usnfa18 met with. Regardless, NAMI will have the ultimate say, so candidates shouldn't worry about this detail.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

FYI, with Phenergan it can cause drowsiness, more in some, like me, both times I took a small dose and I could not stay awake.

 

[AFUAW]

I got airsick a lot in primary. I've been flying F-18s for five years now. You should be ok.

 

[TimeBomb]

As you've read above, this is a really common problem in primary, and there are a number of options available to the VT flight surgeon to help you through.
Adding amphetamine to the Phenergan combats the drowsiness. The original cocktail was scopolamine tablets and Dexedrine. Made your mouth really dry, but was pretty effective. You'll probably be fine. I would not consider a single episode of airsickness in an aerobatic environment "intractable".
R/

 

[exNavyOffRec]

As you've read above, this is a really common problem in primary, and there are a number of options available to the VT flight surgeon to help you through.
Adding amphetamine to the Phenergan combats the drowsiness. The original cocktail was scopolamine tablets and Dexedrine. Made your mouth really dry, but was pretty effective. You'll probably be fine. I would not consider a single episode of airsickness in an aerobatic environment "intractable".
R/

I wish I would have been given one of those as well, especially since I was given the Phenergan and then had to drive home from the ship.

 

[zippy]

Words..

Don't sweat having gotten airsick once. Its pretty common that students get airsick early on in the T-34 and T-6 and then don't get sick later on (MOST of my onwings got sick the first flight or two. SOME had to go through the meds. Over a dozen of them completed the program and none NPQ'd for airsickness... some of the worst are off flying jets for their respective service).

 

[BusyBee604]

I got airsick a lot in primary. I've been flying F-18s for five years now. You should be ok.

I am not a Flight Surgeon, but in many cases airsickness seems to be psychological in nature. I went through flight training, then 1o years of A-4 operational fleet Squadrons, including 2 tours as an A-4 FRS IP, without ever having experienced airsickness. In the earlier FRS tour (prior to the 2-seat TA-4), the ACM training was conducted in 2 sections w/ RP lead-IP chase in each section. Much high 'G' bobbing, weaving, maneuvering was the norm, with minimal queasyness experienced by anyone.

Throughout my 2 A-4 combat deployments (many Gs & over-stresses, jinking, SAM evasions, etc.) no airsickness. Then on my final FRS IP tour (by this time, I had logged 3K+ queasyless/barf-free hours), we were training the updated ACM syllabus using 2 sections of TA-4s with RPs in front seats & IPs in the rear. Practicing the ACM maneuvering, it was found that the RPs (controlling the aircraft), experienced little discomfort, while the rear-seat IPs not in physical control during high-G maneuvering, very often experienced high degrees of discomfort, often leading to dry/wet heaves, ugh. I know it really affected me at times. On several occasions, I retook control of the stick/throttle, and the symptoms soon disappeared. I'm guessing from this, that when you are concentrating on physically controlling the aircraft, your attention is focused so much on that, that little time-room remains for 'mind games' on the effects of violent maneuvering on your body or brain??? Any other similar experiences, or ideas on the subject, I'm open?

BzB

 

[insanebikerboy]

On several occasions, I retook control of the stick/throttle, and the symptoms soon disappeared. I'm guessing from this, that when you are concentrating on physically controlling the aircraft, your attention is focused so much on that, that little time-room remains for 'mind games' on the effects of violent maneuvering on your body or brain??? Any other similar experiences, or ideas

That was preached quite often when I went through primary, if you are feeling bad to ask for the controls or at least ghost the controls. Something about controlling the aircraft helps alleviate airsickness.

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Angry]

For NFOs at least, the Primary squadron is pretty understanding about airsickness - you usually get one "freebie" before you have to go see the FS. Since most of us (including myself) had very little or no time in a plane the command understands that you might not have eaten properly, you're stressed about the brief, and out of control flight might freak you out the first time. I went all through Contact phase feeling fine then on my check ride (first time with Aero) I lost my lunch. After apologizing profusely my IP asked me if it had ever happened before and when I said no, we had a brief chat with STUCON and it was over with. Never happened again, and I could have gotten jets if that's how the dice rolled.

 

[feddoc]

When I was in primary, I puked during my first flight. My instructor was laughing and told me not to worry; he puked during each of his first 7 flights. I never puked again until 6 years later whilst after doing FCLPs at Lemoore.

TimeBomb has wise words...don't worry about a single incident of airsickness. There are many other factors when considering the cause of any airsickness, especially a one time incident. If you feel like you will barf, tell your IP. If you aren't at the controls, maybe he/she can give you the stick in order to re-cage your gyros, so to speak. There is a direct link between air sickness > where your body is (spatially) > and where your body is according to feedback from your proprioceptors. http://www.motionsickness.net/how-do-you-get-motion-sickness/the-anatomy-of-motion-sickness some stick time will usually be the best cure.

Of course, there is always diet, hydration levels, middle ear infection, cold, etc. to consider.