My dilema, NFO or engineering

[Kaminoshi]

So i just sent off my application to the navy (NFO, AMDO, NUKE in that order). Im fairly certain I have a strong shot at getting all 3. If i remember correctly i got a 59/7/7/7. I am getting a degree in Aerospace Engineering at Georgia Tech with a 3.58 GPA and a 4.0 at another college I went to during freshman year.

I am definitely interested in becoming an NFO. I dont have the vision to be a pilot and I'm fine, as long as I get to fly. I come from a military background and lived on Navy bases around the world. It is definitely something I would like to do.

On the flipside, I enjoy math and engineering. And I know I can have a more secure lifestyle if I continue and get my masters degree and/or get a job working for a company (Lockheed, Boeing, Pratt etc).

The problem I am having is choosing between the two. One could argue that I can join the Navy and do engineering when I get out. Although its true, I could be set back 6+ years because I will have no engineering experience and be competing against college graduates. So I am at a loss. I heard from the recruiter that the Navy pays officers to go to graduate school, but I cannot find any information on requirements to do this. All I heard is that you can potentially go to graduate school... nothing on what I have to do to get to that point. Does anyone know anything about this? Do I need to be an O-4 before this?

The ultimate factor in me being deterred away from being an NFO is the post navy career choices. There arent many civilian positions that require the skills an NFO uses on a daily basis (at least thats my belief... correct me if im wrong). What are the job prospects like as an NFO? Is it really NFO for No Future Outside? My intent is to work in engineering or potentially some form of management with an engineering related company when I leave the Navy.

I hear that people in the Navy (especially officers and chiefs) learn a lot of management skills. Is this true for NFOs? I can see this as a benefit to working in the Navy; where I would learn management skills that companies are looking for. What kind of things to NFOs do when they arent flying/mission planning/briefing etc that involve management and working with other personnel?



I am hoping some of you guys can give me some insight on the workings of the Navy, what kind of jobs everyone does when not flying. What happens after you decide to leave. If the Navy sends you to graduate school, and under what conditions. Maybe the navy even has ways for me to get engineering experience while being an NFO, working with Navair people while on a disassociated or shore tour?

Thanks

 

[Ken_gone_flying]

What kind of things to NFOs do when they arent flying/mission planning/briefing etc that involve management and working with other personnel?

An NFO in my squadron posted this as her status on her Facebook page about an hour ago:

"I amused myself on descent, approach & final by guessing our altitude and pattern location. I know, I know... dweeb!"

Sure you want to be one of these?

 

[Short]

Dude, as a 'FO you'll be a Division Officer, later Department Head, then XO/CO provided you screen and perform along the way. You may have to work with the occasional single anchor who needs to be reminded that they are part of a team. As an NFO, I'm always aware of how the P3 guys are f'in up the pattern while I sit in the hold short waiting for them to get through their next fifteen minute radio call. No guessing required.

 

[Pugs]

One could argue that I can join the Navy and do engineering when I get out. Although its true, I could be set back 6+ years because I will have no engineering experience and be competing against college graduates.

You could also argue that you could be an NFO, redesignate to Aviation Engineering Duty Officer after a tour or two or go to Test Pilot School and be deeply involved in engineering in the Navy. You could also go get your masters on the Navy's dime and do same.

Should you decide to get out and go work as a civilian engineer in Aerospace your time as an NFO (can) bring a lot of credibility to your new guy status. Certainly my background in leadership and experience in EW helped me in the transition to a civilian engineering career.

 

[CommodoreMid]

An NFO in my squadron posted this as her status on her Facebook page about an hour ago:

"I amused myself on descent, approach & final by guessing our altitude and pattern location. I know, I know... dweeb!"

Sure you want to be one of these?

Haha I know exactly who you're talking about. She's good people though.

 

[SynixMan]

I'm going to tread lightly here as I'm still relatively new to the Navy and haven't any real world time in whatever this thing is called "The Fleet". That being said, I spent over a year in industry as an Engineering Program Manager for GE before I joined the Navy. I was an EE Major in college. It was seriously a soul sucking desk job, and most of the people in my same year/group were in much of the same boat. The Office is hilarious to watch for most people because 90% of those people are real personalities you'll see in any office, engineering, finance, whatever.

I don't know about you, but I constantly found myself wanting to be the person at the end of the line "Doing The Job" vice the person 1000 miles upstream supporting the person. The Navy afforded me a chance to do something I've always dreamed about and make a contribution back. Not to mention there are tons of opportunities out there for technical people to excel in the Navy should they choose to. Masters degrees seem common (on the Navy's dime), and other things you'd only get exposure to by being in the Navy as an NFO. Best of luck with your decision.

 

[Jim123]

^^^^

Listen to SynixMan.

@OP, what kinds of engineering interest you the most? Design, test, project management, sales, field rep, consulting? I worked about a year in test and I loved it- I wore jeans and safety shoes to work, I could get my hands dirty and look over test data in the same day (on a good day anyway...), almost no meetings, I did get to work with a variety of people from within and without the company, can't say I ever got to travel in that job though. But some guys would have hated that (some people are cut out to sit behind a desk... bless 'em). Oh, and a lot of engineering jobs will have working relationships between teams of "booksmart" and "life experience" people- so will the Navy.

What do you mean by you enjoy math and engineering? Some of the guys in my engineering class couldn't change the oil in their own cars- they obviously went into engineering because their guidance counsellors told them they were good at math (it was fun watching them get confused over simple nuts and bolts design concepts). Some of us tolerated taking higher math because we needed to pass them to graduate (and the math geeks rightfully shook their heads at guys like me when we signed up for our "victory lap" in the calculus courses).

One of my military deployments involved a bit of working with civilian tech reps and uniformed tech reps (engineering duty officers) supporting some high tech equipment the troops were using in the field... and guess what? There are at least a hundred guys on here with similar experiences going back a long time.

You probably already thought of at least half of this stuff to yourself. So to answer your question... yes.


(edit: before I get -1 for reading comprehension/butting in to the NFO group, I'm talking about experiences when I was not on a stick-monkey/bus driver tour )

 

[Kaminoshi]

Thanks for the replies. With regards to what engineering I like, I enjoy working with my hands. Although, thats not to say I dont enjoy book smarts and theory. I specifically chose Aerospace engineering because I have been around aircraft my entire life and enjoy learning about them and the science behind it.

@ Pugs. Do you know how difficult it is to redesignate? My thought is I could do my 6 year commitment, then go get a masters in AE and then try to work as an AEDO on a shore tour or disasociated tour. Or would I have too completely give up NFO and be an AEDO from then on?

Also, do you have any information on test pilot school? How selective is it for non-pilots to work with them? Getting engineering experience there could be fun and a great experience. Hell, I could even get a chance to be an astronaut (doubtful but you can dream).

 

[RadicalDude]

You may have to work with the occasional single anchor who needs to be reminded that they are part of a team.

In your experience, how common is this?

I've already experienced a little bit from fleet guys here in TRACOM land, and it leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

 

[AJTranny]

In your experience, how common is this?

I've already experienced a little bit from fleet guys here in TRACOM land, and it leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

Not sure about P-3 land but that isn't the case at all in tacair. I imagine he was mostly kidding in any case.

 

[Pugs]

Pugs. Do you know how difficult it is to redesignate? My thought is I could do my 6 year commitment, then go get a masters in AE and then try to work as an AEDO on a shore tour or disasociated tour. Or would I have too completely give up NFO and be an AEDO from then on?

Depends entirely on the board at the time. My only redesignation was from 1325 to 1327 in 1993 (and then back to 1325 when I saw the light) and for that I simply applied and was picked up. No clue on AEDO and TPS is a whole separate thread.

 

[navymic]

I know I can have a more secure lifestyle if I continue and get my masters degree and/or get a job working for a company (Lockheed, Boeing, Pratt etc).

Kaminoshi,
Read the paper or watch the news occasionally, there are currently alot of people out of work. While I don't recommend making a long term decision based on the short term, let's just say nobody can accurately predict the future IRT political and economic landscapes, and defense contractors go through feasts and famines too. It may not be as 'secure' as you think.

 

[helolumpy]

Since most guys who join the Navy leave the Navy before they are 45 years old, you will have plenty of time to get a job in a widowless office doing paperwork.
Of course you can take the proverbial path less traveled and have some adventure, a whole lot of fun and maybe get some good stories to tell the rest of your life.

When you 60 and sitting around the 19th hole, how many good stories will start with "So there I was, in the office answering emails...."
Mine will start with stuff like, "So, we're all drunk and in the bar in the Philippines...."

But, if you really think you'll be happier working in an office doing 9-5 every M-F, then this line of work is not for you.

 

[Pugs]

When you 60 and sitting around the 19th hole, how many good stories will start with "So there I was, in the office answering emails...."
Mine will start with stuff like, "So, we're all drunk and in the bar in the Philippines...."

Funny. I have a friend who flies international for a major. I ask him if the all civilian qualified pilots are decent pilots compared to the military trained. He said the company does a pretty good job of normalizing the training and they're decent enough. The problem is if you're going to spend 8 hours+ sitting next to the guy is they have no stories. All they want to talk about is their IRA, not about Tailhook 91 or that port call in the Rhodes.

 

[The Chief]

Your selection of NUKES is a good choice given your priorities, as delineated. The Navy NUKE community is very short on people right now - Needs of the Navy rule. The Navy would view selection for NUKES as a win-win. You put NUKES down as a choice - the Navy needs! You got what you asked for - the Navy gained another outstanding NUKE candidate. A little bit tounge in cheek but you get my drift. My point is never ever select a choice of somthing you do not want.

As we both know, an engineering degree does not make one an engineer. Far from it. The engineering degree earns you EIT status. In the NUKE Navy you can get a whole bunch of hands on engineering exposure. I think the outlook in the civilian sector for NUKE engineer employment is/will be oustanding. NRC is looking at bunches of Nuclear Power Plant licenses. NRC also needs some good NUKE engineers. Pint size nuclear reactors are indeed in our future, IMO.

Job security in AeroEnginnering? In the early 80's we had highly qualified AeroEngineers driving taxi's. in 1983 I hired one super engineer that had been unemployed for two years.

AMDO? Not sure what that has to do with actualy flying duties? But would think chances of selection of AMDO is slim to none. I speak with no authority, but would think NFO slots are limited, for a number of reasons, in particular since the Navy recently cut the ACCP bonus for NFO's by some 40%.

Unrelated: Interesting user name: Kaminoshi.