More SA in the crapper at a controlled field

[BigIron]

Besides the PanAM/KLM Tenerife runway CF, another heinous one comes to mind:
LAX, February of 1991, a controller clears a 737 to land while a Metroliner had already taxied into position and was awaiting takeoff clearance. ATC recording here.

 

[A4sForever]

.... the ground controller.

That's a misnomer. "Controller" ....

Ground AND Air "controllers" ... while they are and important and sometimes a crucial element in the safe and efficient flow of traffic along the highways in the sky ... they don't "control" ANYTHING.

They advise and consent: they advise the Captain and consent to what he does .... that's the way it always has been .... that's the way it always will be ....

When "it" hits the fan .... YOU are in charge .... and if YOU screw it up ... YOU die. And your passengers die with you ... or at the very least, you get violated and your passengers find a lawyer and start the lawsuits ....

Just make certain you have YOUR act together ... then go ahead. If you do ... you will always come up smelling like roses .... believe it.

 

[Gatordev]

When I've been to the various FBOs around the country, I've been seeing FAA notices that Controllers/Consenters shall not give "position and hold" calls due to runway incursions. Have those of you flying the cattle cars also seen this? Or was it even an issue?

 

[A4sForever]

When I've been to the various FBOs around the country, I've been seeing FAA notices that Controllers/Consenters shall not give "position and hold" calls due to runway incursions. Have those of you flying the cattle cars also seen this? Or was it even an issue?

It was only an issue when "they" gave it and you did it .... especially foreign consenters .... only to hear the guy on final .... especially foreign aviators .... breathing down your backside as he prepared to land ....

You always needed to "see" and/or "hear" where the guy "behind" you was and keep track of him. And then accept or reject the "posit & hold" instruction/suggestion ...

To do anything less would be "foreign" to me ...

 

[BACONATOR]

When I've been to the various FBOs around the country, I've been seeing FAA notices that Controllers/Consenters shall not give "position and hold" calls due to runway incursions. Have those of you flying the cattle cars also seen this? Or was it even an issue?

I've been given position and hold calls plenty, even within the past year. Maybe this isn't that widespread? Regardless, before I ever roll onto the active, I was always taught to look on final, regardless of what tower cleared you to do. This is called being a good pilot.

 

[BigIron]

Here's an aritcle/editorial on posit and hold:

http://www.airliners.net/articles/read.main?id=100

 

[Gatordev]

I've been given position and hold calls plenty, even within the past year. Maybe this isn't that widespread?

Um, yeah. Thanks for that. I guess from the Mississippi to the eastern sea-board is kind of limiting in scope.

Here's an aritcle/editorial on posit and hold:

http://www.airliners.net/articles/read.main?id=100

Thanks. Only had time to skim, but seems like waivers are sometimes the answer, otherwise, get over it. I know NSE has a special LOA for allowing up to 4 aircraft on the same runway at one time. Kind of dicey, especially when one blows a tire on roll-out.

 

[A4sForever]

"Banning" the posit & hold (TIPH) option is a solution in search of a problem ...

And the "ban", real or imagined, is yet another example of the "one size fits all" mentality that lives and breathes in the heart of any true bureaucracy ... of which the FAA is --- and always has been --- and always will be --- a prime example.

 

[SemperGumbi]

In and around Mississississippi I have been given a Pos and Hold in the last year and a half. Not just at NMM, either.

Years ago the field I flew at had an accident involving a misunderstood takeoff clearance. A close call occured (thankfully, because that RJ was full of people, and the Arrow was "full" or 2 people). There was a big push after that--and is still the case at least there, I believe--to say "prepared for departure" instead of "Ready for takeoff."

THey wanted to reserve "takeoff" for only two calls: the one from tower, followed by the one from the aircraft. I don't know if that is any more widespread than in Illinois, but the Pos and hold thing reminded me of it.

 

[whitesoxnation]

I started chuckling when the captain cut the blonde off... Lol

 

[mustang_wife]

ummm...yeah, that would scare the crap out of me...call me crazy but that was one reason I was trying to get hubby to stay clear of ATC... "Uh, Tower, US Air 2998, til we figure out what's going on down there we're just going to stay clear of all runways." very smart man.