More Inter-agency Law Enforcement Incompetence: King Schools Owners Falsely Arrested

[hokieav8r]

I just figure that the same plane was in the same situation before. Cops doing their jobs....ok....maybe.... but not the leadership. They should have at the very least coordinated with the FSDO or something for that type of stuff.... it wasn't like they all of the sudden pulled over an airplane and ran the tag.

All I'm saying is that if you're going after aircraft - it wouldn't hurt to know a little about it or coordinate with someone who does....maybe CBP AIAs (I've been surrounded by those guys upon landing...they were actually pretty cool about it all)

Alright, alright. Calm down. If it were CBP, which I'm assuming it was, if not, then local PD acting off of guidance from CBP, then they were detained until the situation was figured out. I can explain this in great detail to you off line if you desire.

Bottom line, when an aircraft comes up "stolen", no matter how latent the report, it implicates a lot of higher echelon crimes at the Federal Level. Tail Numbers are not recycled everyday like people seem to imply because it is a pain in the ass to paint the aircraft and I'm sure you all know about that. In the case of Aviation Smuggling and crime, if the tail number comes up with derogatory information, the standard procedure is to detain the individuals and you have to assume the worst until you get the situation developed while "field interviewing" the personnel who exit the aircraft. I find it mildy ironic that it's the Kings School people as they are littered all over CDs, interactive learning systems and Microsoft Flight Sim 2004. Regardless, appreciation would be forwarded if the criticism is dialed back a little bit, I don't criticize poorly guided payload from DOD aircraft after 2 hours or coordination.

I hope it clears things up a bit, maybe clear as mud, but feel free to pm me for non-sensitive information.

 

[hokieav8r]

View attachment 12171 View attachment 12170

They were handcuffed and put into the back of two separate cruisers, my former instructor witnessed it live while I was on the phone with him. Isn't that being arrested? Or is that only considered being "detained'? And even if so, would that be just splitting hairs?

Hey! That's a nice looking Cessna!

 

[navyao]

Nah, it's best to terrorize citizens first, then find out what's going on...[/QUOTE]

I have 11 years on the job, all in patrol. I'm a Tactical Operator, instructor and I train new copers. After I left active duty and earned my degree I realized I wasn't going back in the Nav and went to the academy. I'm saying all of that not to write about "me" but so all of you know I'm not some poser.

First of all I take offense to the quote I posted. Utilizing such a term like "terrorize" to describe a LE trained technique is unprofessional and very, very wrong. 1/2 the guys on AW have engaged and killed folks who "terrorize" the innocent with ordnance that I've built! Choose your words more wisley.

That being said, I think the individuals that posted their desire not to Monday a.m. QB are right on target. Unless of course someone has read the police reports or heard the exchange of intell between agencies? I haven't. That's a big problem in today's society, the media reports something and everyone jumps to some conclusion. Those of you who are on active duty or were and are in the TACAIR community understand what I'm talking about or should. We hear about Afghani civilians being killed in airstrikes which then dictates the restricted ROE you guys have to follow. I think that's FUBAR, we're at war.

In LE we follow ROE just like the TACAIR guys have to. Remember a few years ago the F-15 pilot that bagged an Mi-8 helo? The bogey (not bandit) was operating in the no fly zone so he fired and killed the helo and all aboard. Great! An air to air kill, every fighter jocks dream right? The media reported he didn't follow ROE because he failed to VID it before engaging the threat. The threat was a UH-60 full of Americans and foreign dignitaries. The pilot is heard calling the lock, shot and kill by saying, "stick a fork in him!" Oooowwww! Not good.

I use that example to show that we work in an unforgiving environment where decisions at times have to be made quickly and sometimes all the necessary information needed isn't coming as fast you may want it to. I can run stolen a/c info on my squad computer. Have I ever had to? No. My agency is adjacent to Gen. Mitchell Int'l in MKE, but the Sheriff handles the airport. Could some goof land a stolen Cessna on an adjacent HWY in my city? I suppose. Would I react the same way these copers did? I don't know because I would personally have to do my own threat assessment.

These copers performed a trained technique, a high risk vehicle contact. This technique is trained throughout LE and maybe even over seas now. This type of stop is performed when an officer(s) perceives a higher threat that would dictate approaching the vehicle or in this case the Cessna as unwise. Why? Well the cops have been told the a/c is stolen. I know that stealing an a/c is a felony, at least in WI it is. A felony is a serious crime and someone who is willing to steal an a/c in my opinion is pretty damned determined to commit a crime. Is my threat assessment hightened? Yep! Is my gun coming out? My M-16 is coming out! Like "rare21" said, we don't know who the hell is in that car, truck or in this case the Cessna. With the intell I have at the moment I don't know what's going on with the a/c or its pilot, I don't know what their goals or intentions are, all I know is the a/c is stolen. As "scoolbubba" mentioned, "Cops raised their hand and took an oath that put the public before their own safety." That's correct, however I'm potentially protecting the public from a potential felon who just stole a Cessna with unknown intentions. This is the safest way to apprehend the subject(s) involved and conduct my investigation while keeping me and my peers safe which is my ultimate goal. We have another saying, "It's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 8."

LE ROE is dictated by three things: 1. the law, 2. policy & procedure and 3. Training and Standards. Personally I've never performed, trained or been trained on how to conduct a vehicle contact involving an a/c. So, the police have to carry out the mission with the knowledge or training they have. In this case the police were told there was a stolen a/c landing at the AP and the tower would taxi them to your location. My guess is these copers are thinking, "stolen airplane? WTF?! How are we going to handle this?" Well, it's stolen so lets handle it like we would a vehicle on the road. Get the occupants out and investigate it. Was there a break down in communication here - apparently. But to dog the copers who responded? No. We follow orders just like you guys do, LE is a quasi-military organization. That's why we take an oath to defend, protect and uphold. We follow the chain of command and have discipline and ethics just like the military.

 

[navyao]

Well said brother! Hooverpilot's got a criminal justice degree. Hoover when you retire, put that degree to work and become a cop, you sound like one!

 

[SkywardET]

Thank you for posting navyao and providing your insight. This incident is relatively minor and I can certainly see why the response from the police was as it was. However, I did choose my words carefully. Some citizens live in fear of the police; and not because they are criminals. Police really have terrorized citizens and non-citizens that were guilty of no crimes or infractions. Guns drawn on this couple? Small potatoes compared to when police really mess up.



Search YouTube for just "police" and the second video is a police snuff film, the fourth is taser brutality, and the 6th is one titled simply "Police Brutality."

I had a much longer post about instances of bad police doing bad things, but it's not really pertinent to anyone on this forum. In general police are good, but I would not go so far as to say that they deserve respect simply for being police; not the type of respect that is given to firefighters or the military simply for being in those professions, in any case.

Suppose I need to stop researching depressing topics.

P.S. It's f***ing scary that some on this forum can equate the role of police in America to military fastroping in a hostile foreign country.

 

[eas7888]

Getting away from the seriousness of the topic here. . .Anyone who has had to sit through a video done by John or Martha King likely wishes that the LEOs would have done the world a favor and pulled the trigger. I've never wanted to gouge my eyes out more, than when I've watched their videos.

Back on topic,

P.S. It's f***ing scary that some on this forum can equate the role of police in America to military fastroping in a hostile foreign country.

Skyward, I would much rather be conducting operations in a hostile country than patrolling the streets of America. The ROE is usually more clearly defined, the enemy is usually more obvious than in the states, not to mention that I can conduct my operations with a mounted machine gun, or while carrying an M4 at the low ready. In other words, always ready to engage a threat. I have NOTHING BUT respect for our nation's law enforcement officers, many of whom I'm proud to call friends. Anyone who doesn't respect them BECAUSE of the uniform they wear, is no better than the scum of the earth that they have to deal with.

Are there bad apples, YES
Are there bad apples in the military? YES (If you have any doubt in your mind, go here: Mai Lai

Long story short, respect LEOs, they've got one of the most stressful jobs around. Our armed forces are in combat on rare occasions, LEOs have been getting shot at every day since they started wearing badges.

 

[SkywardET]

Anyone who doesn't respect them BECAUSE of the uniform they wear, is no better than the scum of the earth that they have to deal with.

Are there bad apples, YES
Are there bad apples in the military? YES (If you have any doubt in your mind, go here: Mai Lai

I understand where you're coming from. Police do have a tough and unglamorous job. The key difference between the military and the police, however, is that the military exercises power over non-citizens in foreign lands, whereas police exercise extraordinary power over American citizens.

Part of the problem also is the assumption of the "scum of the earth they have to deal with." Yes, police encounter a lot of society's deviants and bad actors, but police also interact with the completely innocent and engage in brutal and humiliating acts against them. There are millions of videos of this. The

incident is a prime example. Call the police to report that you were assaulted and then get raped (sans penetration) by the police? The ratio between when police make the situation worse and when they improve the situation they are called to deal with is far, far too high.

Police deserve no respect by their uniform. They deserve it by their actions only. It's too large of a shit sandwich to sweep all the horrible crap under the rug.

 

[eas7888]

I understand where you're coming from. Police do have a tough and unglamorous job. The key difference between the military and the police, however, is that the military exercises power over non-citizens in foreign lands, whereas police exercise extraordinary power over American citizens.

Part of the problem also is the assumption of the "scum of the earth they have to deal with." Yes, police encounter a lot of society's deviants and bad actors, but police also interact with the completely innocent and engage in brutal and humiliating acts against them. There are millions of videos of this. The

incident is a prime example. Call the police to report that you were assaulted and then get raped (sans penetration) by the police? The ratio between when police make the situation worse and when they improve the situation they are called to deal with is far, far too high.

Police deserve no respect by their uniform. They deserve it by their actions only. It's too large of a shit sandwich to sweep all the horrible crap under the rug.

By your statement, it's clear you don't understand the role law enforcement plays in this country I'm proud to call home. You're quick to judge an entire profession simply because of the acts of a few. Remember, there have been countless individuals in the armed forces that have been caught doing things much worse than any law enforcement officer has done. Does that mean that we shouldn't respect any of the members of the armed forces until they earn our respect. Not only no, but hell no. As a staff sergeant, I command the respect that my rank deserves. I don't ask for respect, I don't have to earn other's respect, respect comes with the rank. You don't have to like me or respect me as a person, but you WILL respect the uniform and the rank I wear on my chest.

I would expect no less of any Law Enforcement Officer, and if you're not willing to give them the respect that they so rightly deserve, I sincerely hope you take some time to look in to your role in the military. As an enlisted member of the Navy, I'm sure you were taught that you don't have to respect the man, but you will respect the rank, the uniform, and the authority for which they represent.

 

[phrogpilot73]

As a staff sergeant, I command the respect that my rank deserves. I don't ask for respect, I don't have to earn other's respect, respect comes with the rank. You don't have to like me or respect me as a person, but you WILL respect the uniform and the rank I wear on my chest.

I think you missed his point. Joe average American doesn't have to respect you for your rank or your uniform.

The same is true with the cops.

 

[eas7888]

I think you missed his point. Joe average American doesn't have to respect you for your rank or your uniform.

The same is true with the cops.

I suppose growing up in rural America, I have a different experience with respect for the uniform. Where I come from, most people do respect members of the military and law enforcement. I suppose it just saddens me that the actions of so few have tainted the public's perception of the LEO profession for the rest.

 

[yak52driver]

I suppose growing up in rural America, I have a different experience with respect for the uniform. Where I come from, most people do respect members of the military and law enforcement. I suppose it just saddens me that the actions of so few have tainted the public's perception of the LEO profession for the rest.

All I can say is the folks that I know still respect the military and LEO's for what they do and the uniform they wear. I have an LEO that lives across the street from me, and got to know a whole bunch of them when I was a volunteer EMT. Good people, all.

 

[craftingraptor]

I suppose growing up in rural America, I have a different experience with respect for the uniform. Where I come from, most people do respect members of the military and law enforcement.

You're quick to judge an entire profession simply because of the acts of a few.

Hey now, I'm not from rural country and I have tremendous respect for the military and police.

I would also suggest that living in a "rural" area might give you less reason to "disrespect" cops. For instance, traffic tickets. You probably get close to none of those. Where I live, they're giving tickets out like coupons at the grocery store. Did you stop too close to the cross walk? Ticket. Did you start veering left before the lane officially permitted it? Ticket. Did you happen to glance at your cell phone and then put it back after deciding not to answer it? Ticket (only in CA!).

I still respect them though. After all, they're just doing their job like the rest of us.

 

[Pariel]

I'm pretty sure giving out tickets as a CHP is a "good day". Those guys do not have a safe job.