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Medal Sytem Recommendations
- Thread starter phrogdriver
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I have to agree with that. Just because you didn't go to war and fight on the front line doesn't mean that you did nothing for the Corps or any other service.CORPSviation said:
I can think of plenty of people all through the years that I know personally that served during war and didn't go to where the war was. It doesn't mean they "sucked" at their job or had a "useless" job, on the contrary they were the best at what they did/do. When they asked/ask to go to war, about a bagillion times including petitioning and talking to everyone there is to go, they were/are told "you are our best, we don't send our best. You train others and we send them, not our best until absolutely necessary." So in other words being the best pilot the Navy has, for example, means that you "suck" because you didn't go to war and you don't get rewarded unless you go, right? Just some food for thought.
Of course I'm not saying hand them out like cookies either. I can think of plenty of times when people have received awards for the dumbest things.
Super18Ordie
F/A-18 Ordnanceman
Kolja said:
So thats why I didnt get my EOT award when I left the boat I could never make to work before 6am. Damn I-664 traffic!
But Col. Hackworth shouldnt be one to talk about worthless medals because didnt I hear that he got caught wearing an unauthorized Ranger badge?
I'm checking this out. So far all I've found is an article written by Col. Hackworth: DEFENDING AMERICASuper18Ordie said:
David H. Hackworth
10 Mar 98
It states he was falsely accused of this by CBS reporters, had the Army check it out and all came out that he was issued all awards he wore.
His statement: My defense was that, "I'd never worn a medal the Army didn't issue me." Fortunately, the publisher of this newspaper accepted my stand: "Why would I add an award to my resume, when I have over two dozen individual valor awards? What possible difference would another Distinguished Flying Cross or a Ranger Tab make?"
Here is the story link:
http://www.hackworth.com/10mar98.html
HOORAH said:
No one is saying that those who don’t serve in theater are less valuable, much less worthless. There’s already something to identify those who serve their country. It’s a uniform. Your great job stateside should be recognized in a fitrep, not in a medal. Those WWII guys we keep referencing didn’t get medals at the rates we give now, and they never expected them, especially not for non-combat tasks. Non-combat awards should be for things like saving a life or major history-making tasks (e.g. the Nautilus crossing the pole, John Glenn orbiting the earth) . A chestful of medals should mean one thing—badass. It shouldn’t mean you redid the filing system.
Super18Ordie
F/A-18 Ordnanceman
I just found out that he had died
Col. David. H. Hackworth, 1930-2005 Legendary U.S. Army Guerrilla Fighter, Champion of the Ordinary Soldier
Washington, D.C., May 5, 2005 – Col. David H. Hackworth, the United States Army's legendary, highly decorated guerrilla fighter and lifelong champion of the doughboy and dogface, ground-pounder and grunt, died Wednesday in Mexico. He was 74 years old. The cause of death was a form of cancer now appearing with increasing frequency among Vietnam veterans exposed to the defoliants called Agents Orange and Blue.
Col. David. H. Hackworth, 1930-2005 Legendary U.S. Army Guerrilla Fighter, Champion of the Ordinary Soldier
Washington, D.C., May 5, 2005 – Col. David H. Hackworth, the United States Army's legendary, highly decorated guerrilla fighter and lifelong champion of the doughboy and dogface, ground-pounder and grunt, died Wednesday in Mexico. He was 74 years old. The cause of death was a form of cancer now appearing with increasing frequency among Vietnam veterans exposed to the defoliants called Agents Orange and Blue.
I never metioned any filing system in anything I said, as a matter of fact. Your reading into to what I said. As a matter of fact I am referring to a personal family friend who flew F-18s for the Navy during the Gulf War and they wouldn't send him or his unit despite their numerous asking and petitions to go to war feeling that that is why they fly. Despite their numerous efforts they were constantly told you are our best pilots, we don't send our best. You train the ones we do send." So I guess from what you're saying is that you shouldn't strive to be the best at what you do because then no one will know that you are "badass" because you won't have anything to show for it but a pilot's licesence and a he!! of a lot of hours logged.phrogdriver said:
HOORAH said:
Wow, "Needs of the service" can be applied in so many different ways. Aviators fly to serve the government. If the government says "Stay put" then that's what you do. Sure, people get angry about it but "asking and petitions" just make it sound like they are trying to serve themselves.
I think what phrogdriver was getting at was the large number of admin clerks with more personal awards than they have years in service.
Also, if you gauge your personal worth as a badass by the number of hours you have, well, I pity you.
HOORAH said:
Qualified aviators are always necessary to bring the war to the enemy and to train the next generation. You don't want the B Team to stay at home to train the next batch of aviators. There were plenty of excellent aviators who spent a considerable amount of time on the homefront in WWII in order to train replacement pilots. David McCampbell flew in combat on only one tour during the 4yrs of the pacific war. And he won the Medal of Honor, but he got that for combat actions.
And I agree with crowbar that the main complaint most of us seem to have is the increasing number of awards given out for everyday office jobs. Guy did a wicked job with the filing? Great, give him SoY. Awards should be for going above and beyond the call of duty, not for fulfilling your assigned duties. And if you happened to fulfill your assigned duties in an exemplary manner, let it be shown on your fitrep and maybe with an early promote.
Having nevver written an eval, I have no firsthand experience, but does anyone know if "grade inflation" is a common occurence in evals/fitreps? And does this lead to the need for some other way to discriminate the truly excellent in a way other than the fitrep, such as an end of tour award?
Pretty much the way it works for both Es and Os is everyone is essentially ranked, then the Fitreps/Evals are adjusted accordingly. The reporting senior's average is included, so it gives you a baseline reference from which to judge the individual's score. The way it's done today is much better than in the early 90s when everybody was getting 4.0. Like many things in the Navy, timing still plays a big part.Pags said:
Brett
HOORAH said:
I used filing as just an example. I don’t know anything about your family. However, staying stateside and wanting to go is part of the deal. During OIF-I, I was instructing in HTs. I ‘d have liked to go, but too bad for me. However, I got the sand out of my nether regions (that’s an area of Holland), and did my job. Some of my former SNAs have and will deploy to Iraq before I do. However much I wanted to go, I knew my job instructing was an important one. None of that means I deserve a medal. Has the self-esteem movement gone so far that everyone in the military needs a ribbon to feel good about his job? It’s like a grade-school track meet, where there are ribbons all the way down to 11th place or something (“Ninth place, Focker? I didn’t know they made 9th place ribbons?“).
Even if I had no ribbons, my experience is a lot more than a pilot’s license and hours logged. I’ve helped defend my country for 10 years. That should be enough reward in itself. You want a pat on the back? Go be a camp counselor or something.
If you find it difficult to justify geedunk awards to unknowing questioners, just don't wear them.
The system needs revision. The proposal posted from hackworth.com is a start. Proably too strident in total. Any change would probably have to come from a joint service commission endorsed by the JCS. No single service would unilaterally disarm.
The system needs revision. The proposal posted from hackworth.com is a start. Proably too strident in total. Any change would probably have to come from a joint service commission endorsed by the JCS. No single service would unilaterally disarm.
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