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MCPON under investigation for alleged abusive leadership

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exNavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
Brett327 said:
You seem to be drawing a distinction between being fired and being forced to retire. I think those are the same thing. Either way it’s a DFC.
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I would say they are the same 90% of the time, I have seen it where people have put in retirement papers and immediately went on terminal leave and were not technically fired.
 
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exNavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
Brett327 said:
I was floored when I learned that. I would have thought that that position was vetted and scrutinized to a high degree. I propose those who knowingly selected him despite his past ought to answer for this.
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I was also surprised, I have however known several MCPO's who early on had NJP, they were really good MCPO's, the 3 I can remember talked about how their arrogance led them to NJP, of course I know several MCPO's who never had an issue and were jerks to people, so is there really a right answer?
 
Brett327

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
NavyOffRec said:
I would say they are the same 90% of the time, I have seen it where people have put in retirement papers and immediately went on terminal leave and were not technically fired.
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You may not have been aware of the underlying process, but when someone is asked to retire early, it’s because they were dismissed for cause. Reference Admirals Swift, Rowden and Aucoin, etc.
 
picklesuit

picklesuit

Dirty Hinge
pilot
Contributor
As a whole, I’ve been unimpressed with the MCPO cadre in my career. I can count on one hand (even after a July 4th mishap) the number of Master Chiefs I think truly had the respect of their Sailors and the wardroom.

Two were VP CMC’s, and one was on the boat.

The best one I ever worked with was the VP-30 CMC who looked at my personnel folder and asked me why I wasn’t commissioned yet.

He’s pretty much the reason I’m here today.

The Air Department MCPO on my last tour was a complete disgrace, to the point I had to take on some of his duties and we both had to, separately, talk to the Air Boss about our relationship (I had no fucking respect for him as a man or an E-9) after a discussion at an “elevated volume level”.

I know there are good ones out there, but they seem to be the exception to the rule.
 
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exNavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
picklesuit said:
As a whole, I’ve been unimpressed with the MCPO cadre in my career. I can count on one hand (even after a July 4th mishap) the number of Master Chiefs I think truly had the respect of their Sailors and the wardroom.

Two were VP CMC’s, and one was on the boat.

The best one I ever worked with was the VP-30 CMC who looked at my personnel folder and asked me why I wasn’t commissioned yet.

He’s pretty much the reason I’m here today.

The Air Department MCPO on my last tour was a complete disgrace, to the point I had to take on some of his duties and we both had to, separately, talk to the Air Boss about our relationship (I had no fucking respect for him as a man or an E-9) after a discussion at an “elevated volume level”.

I know there are good ones out there, but they seem to be the exception to the rule.
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I would like to disagree with you but I can't. The majority of MCPO's I have worked with should never have been MCPO's, many got there not by doing their job great and leading sailors, but by doing high visibility things that often had nothing to do with their job, or they got their by walking all over their people to do work and hounding them, not by leading and inspiring!

I knew one airwing MCPO that was so far out of standards it was sickening, yet he made BF and put on MCPO, another that just yelled until his people did what was needed, another SCPO that was so busy following the CMC around his people never saw him and he made MCPO!

I had one I knew who was a nuke and great technician who did take care of his people, but he made MCPO at like 15 years, but while he would take care of his people he always said "I can hang around until 30 and not have to do much" what type of example does that set? He didn't make it to 30 though since the billets they offered him were to "work intensive".

I have also worked for a few great ones, often they were not the 15 year MCPO's but more like the 20 year MCPO's who had many experiences in their career, these are guys that if they called and said they needed help I would without a question do what I could to help them.

To be honest as a new CPO I was going down the path of hounding my sailors and walking on them until a great MCPO took me under his wing and spent time showing me how to lead vice manage sailors and it made a world of difference. One of the most memorable times as an engineroom CPO was when we had some unexpected work that ran long and figured we would be there to about 4 extra hours, when I asked for volunteers to stay with me to get the work done nearly every one of my sailors volunteered.

The CPO mess as a whole needs to learn there is a difference between management and leadership.
 
Flash

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Brett327 said:
Some of these guys start to think they're the same rank as the GOFOs they advise. In those positions, they are servants to every single Sailor out there busting their asses on the line. If they don't have that mindset, they need to move on.
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That is how I saw Army CSM's act and they were treated that way too by most of their fellow soldiers. A few of the Army officers I worked with were disparaging of the worst parts but it is fully institutionalized in the Army, to the point where several CSM's were comfortable with either ignoring or ordering around officers, the Navy guys (reservists mostly) usually did their best to ignore or mock them.

As for the 3-star protocol thing, one Army Colonel on the staff I was on related a story about how he was escorting the Army CSM to the USS Constitution. The Colonel got into an argument with the ships company about honors coming onto the ship with the Colonel arguing that they needed to give the CSM 3-star honors. Some of those guys really do believe they are GOFO's.
 
robav8r

robav8r

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
“MCPON’s job is an advisory one and he is not a CO, but of course we will take the necessary measures to ensure the investigation is conducted in a manner that ensures the integrity of the process.”

. . . . . . . I'm glad that got cleared up.

Navy sources familiar with the situation described it as “uncharted waters,” and said that the investigation is ongoing and no deadline has been set, allowing the investigators all the leeway they need.

Really, the Navy has never done this before?
 
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