mustang_wife
Domestic Engineer Specialist
Sorry Goob, this topic was crushed way before I put in my 2cents...AND sorry for the double post...bad computer problems.
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Math Through The Ages
- Thread starter Cleonard19
- Start date
Some things just sound better before they are fixed, like "Where's all the single women" as opposed to "where are the single women"
Or "where's all the fighters" as opposed to "where are the fighters," though the answer is the same (the tanker's down).
Why exactly does a kid have to learn proper Spanish to have to learn English? Kind of seems backwards to me. Plus, they're kids so it's been proven they can learn a language easier (as a whole), so why take two steps when you can get there in one?
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
Because making them learn the de-facto national language would not be culturally sensitive..
TO HELL WITH THAT. I should not have to "Press 1 for English" or have to tell the customer service WalMartian to get me the English speaking manager (in my gringo-spanish).
TO HELL WITH THAT. I should not have to "Press 1 for English" or have to tell the customer service WalMartian to get me the English speaking manager (in my gringo-spanish).
I feel that there is absolutly no reason why they cannot learn english, and that there is no reason why they cannot, especially when they are immersed in it. Here is my reasoning.
My brother (along with thousands of others) went on a mission and had to learn a language. He was given a course in spanish then shipped to Mexico. Because he was in a land that only really spoke spanish, he had to learn to survive. When he got off the plane after 2 years. Guess what language he spoke? Spanish. In fact, he almost had to re-learn english. He is now fluent in both.
I am a third generation immigrant (grandpa moved here from germany), he learned english, we dont speak german. My dad doesn't speak german. Reason? We live in America, we speak english.
I worked at a high school in Whittier California, whose students were mostly from a spanish background. Most of the students I helped came from immigrant families. Guess what there parents mostly spoke? Spanish. My wife works as a teacher where a large majority of students come from immigrant families. At parent teacher night or when she has to call a parent, guess what they speak? Same. Now, these are kids who were born here meaning their parents have lived here for at least 14 years give or take.
I do not think that they need to go to the extent of my grandfather and drop their language. Hell, I wish I spoke german. I just think there needs to be a greater emphasis on learning the english language. Im all for bilingual education as long as it goes to english dominant instruction. Obviously this is a agree to disagree topic, but thats my opinion.
My brother (along with thousands of others) went on a mission and had to learn a language. He was given a course in spanish then shipped to Mexico. Because he was in a land that only really spoke spanish, he had to learn to survive. When he got off the plane after 2 years. Guess what language he spoke? Spanish. In fact, he almost had to re-learn english. He is now fluent in both.
I am a third generation immigrant (grandpa moved here from germany), he learned english, we dont speak german. My dad doesn't speak german. Reason? We live in America, we speak english.
I worked at a high school in Whittier California, whose students were mostly from a spanish background. Most of the students I helped came from immigrant families. Guess what there parents mostly spoke? Spanish. My wife works as a teacher where a large majority of students come from immigrant families. At parent teacher night or when she has to call a parent, guess what they speak? Same. Now, these are kids who were born here meaning their parents have lived here for at least 14 years give or take.
I do not think that they need to go to the extent of my grandfather and drop their language. Hell, I wish I spoke german. I just think there needs to be a greater emphasis on learning the english language. Im all for bilingual education as long as it goes to english dominant instruction. Obviously this is a agree to disagree topic, but thats my opinion.
Shit, by that logic, every sign in the US would have ALL the languages of EVERY ethnic background of EVERY american.
Lighten up and realize that this is funny because in the public school system, there are a lot of "curtosies" given to solely spanish speaking people. (Read: It's not a race issue...it's a language and LAZINESS issue:icon_rage). I don't care if my kid learns spanish. Don't use my $$ to adapt to those who don't care to learn english.
mustang_wife
Domestic Engineer Specialist
Look. teachers don't have the money and resources to emerge these kids in the language. (ANY teacher/substitute- your wives would probably agree) It's bad enough that american "english only" speaking kids fall through the cracks of the educational system...let alone kids who speak another language. We can easily look in from the other side and be critics and say..."this is how you fix the problem...this is what needs to be done" but in reality schools just can't do that. Believe me with my parents both spanish teachers my dad retired 30yrs high school and my mom 20yrs elementary they've seen it happen all too often.
ESL should be done away with anyhow...that is just a crappy program that doesn't work because it's not done correctly. If a K (kinder) student says, great grandma lives with them and speaks fluent spanish they get put in ESL...they take a "very" basic test which they don't even have to answer in spanish but just nod yes or no. So, if you ask them azul is blue yes or no and they nod yes..*POOF* they're fluent spanish speakers. Then you're teaching children who don't even belong in the ESL program. Waste of time and energy period end of story.
Of course in reality it's how much parents help and push their children to learn.
We're sticking both of our girls in the Japanese school system. "You live in Japan, you speak japanese" right? Are they going to speak english?..probably not. Will they have bilingual programs?...not sure..but probably not. I can let you know just how tossing your children into survival mode actually works and personally let you know in a few years if they were able to adjust. My guess is yes, but will this method work for all children? My guess is no.
Of course, everyone easily can say, "you live in America learn english" ,but when it comes to living in another country will you do the same with you and your family? sound off.
ESL should be done away with anyhow...that is just a crappy program that doesn't work because it's not done correctly. If a K (kinder) student says, great grandma lives with them and speaks fluent spanish they get put in ESL...they take a "very" basic test which they don't even have to answer in spanish but just nod yes or no. So, if you ask them azul is blue yes or no and they nod yes..*POOF* they're fluent spanish speakers. Then you're teaching children who don't even belong in the ESL program. Waste of time and energy period end of story.
Of course in reality it's how much parents help and push their children to learn.
We're sticking both of our girls in the Japanese school system. "You live in Japan, you speak japanese" right? Are they going to speak english?..probably not. Will they have bilingual programs?...not sure..but probably not. I can let you know just how tossing your children into survival mode actually works and personally let you know in a few years if they were able to adjust. My guess is yes, but will this method work for all children? My guess is no.
Of course, everyone easily can say, "you live in America learn english" ,but when it comes to living in another country will you do the same with you and your family? sound off.
Agree. Parents need to be more resourceful, yet they are the ones who fail to grasp the language, leaving their kids to become the translators of the family
First, isn't there base schooling? My wife went to school at Kinnick in Yokosuka. Second, sounds like a good experiment if they become fluent in japanese.
What I wonder is why after working retail and helping customers for 3 years, the vast majority of those who could not speak english were spanish speakers? I remember two examples of non english speakers coming to mind that were not spanish. One was a lady who spoke chinese, the other a family from the Netherlands or Finland.
Why do those whose primary language being spanish in america fail to learn english? Can they just not grasp it or do they not care?
Permenently? Yes. Or to the best we can depending on the language. Japan is very complicated. Spanish/Italian not so complicated.
If stationed, we would try to learn the basics.
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
Its funny to me that as a whole, Spanish is the only "non English" language that is getting all this extra help.
My grandparents came here, my grandmother spoke German, Latvian and little English. My grandfather spoke Latvian, some German and NO english.
Growing up in a mostly German/Polish neighborhood in Boston, my mom speaks perfect English and has since she was in Kindergarten. Same for all the "extended family" from the neighborhood.
There were no Latvian or German ESL classes at Savin Hill, and my mother, aunt, and all their fellow immigrants did just fine.
They learned English because it was the way of the land.
The people demanding Spanish DO NOT want to adapt, and want us to cater to them.
Fvckem if they can't speak English. If they cared about their children's future they would MAKE DAMN SURE they learn English. Right now it just seems as they are banking on the rest of America caving to their desires.
The sad part is, it appears to be working.
My grandparents came here, my grandmother spoke German, Latvian and little English. My grandfather spoke Latvian, some German and NO english.
Growing up in a mostly German/Polish neighborhood in Boston, my mom speaks perfect English and has since she was in Kindergarten. Same for all the "extended family" from the neighborhood.
There were no Latvian or German ESL classes at Savin Hill, and my mother, aunt, and all their fellow immigrants did just fine.
They learned English because it was the way of the land.
The people demanding Spanish DO NOT want to adapt, and want us to cater to them.
Fvckem if they can't speak English. If they cared about their children's future they would MAKE DAMN SURE they learn English. Right now it just seems as they are banking on the rest of America caving to their desires.
The sad part is, it appears to be working.
Fuck yes. Having been born in the Holland due to my dad being stationed there, my whole family learned Dutch. Our next door neighbors could speak fluent English but we still learned Dutch because we were there and it was the right thing to do. I wasn't old enough to go to school, moved back to the U.S. when I was 4. That said, my brother was in school and learned Dutch fluently, and my sister could speak it just as well. I wasn't as fluent just because I didn't interact with too many people outside of my family, but I knew it. Can I speak Dutch now? No, but that's because I haven't lived in that country for over 20 years.
I think it's shitty and fucked up that people come to this country and then practically demand that they be spoken to in their native language. Is it bad that they want to continue using their original language? Not at all, but the rest of the population shouldn't have to bend over backwards for the few people who are too lazy to try. The flip side of the coin applies to US citizens when they go to another country and practically demand English. Whenever I've gone overseas I've tried to learn the language as best as possible so I could at least stumble through it.
As for ESL, it's not as much the program as the kids who are in it. The students have separate versions of their language that they use, the formal "class" language and then the way they speak with their friends and how they speak at home (which is usually what they are encouraged to speak by their families). It's not too difficult to see what version of their language they're gonna try and learn, and that's what makes ESL difficult. And I'm not just speaking out of my ass, my wife currently works in ESL and she sees it daily.
MW, none of this was directed at you, just ranting. :icon_rage
/off_rant
nvm
