Masters Degree

[Logico]

Several intel officers that I have spoken with (all above 0-3) got their Masters degrees from either Naval Postgraduate School or one of the War Colleges AND it was paid for by the Navy.

Is that just an Intel thing or is that common across the Navy for all officers? Does anyone know whether it matters what your Masters degree is in (field of study)? Is the "Navy pays me to do it" program offered to all O's or is it a competitive thing?

I guess any info along these lines would be greatly appreciated.

 

[TheBubba]

Common across the Navy... I know people from all communities that have masters from either NPS or a War College.

Don't know about the relevancy of subject or competitiveness.

 

[Brett327]

Common across the Navy... I know people from all communities that have masters from either NPS or a War College.

Don't know about the relevancy of subject or competitiveness.

I don't know if I'd quite call it common, but it does happen. In years past, a NPS tour was considered a career negative and seen as someone taking their packs off and "settling" for a tour of not observed FITREPs. Today, as there is an increased focus on things like JPME, a trip through one of the various war colleges is likely going to become a prereq for command. I would say as it stands right now, a NPS tour is a career neutral event. I can't speak for the Intel community specifically, but for URLs, the masters degree is nothing more than a check in the box as far as the Navy is concerned, so they don't care where/how you get it or what discipline the degree is in. Obviously, if you can get a masters and fulfill your JPME requirements simultaneously, then that would be smart. Seems like lots of folks go for the MBA as well. I know all you newbies are all excited and want to plan out your careers to the nth degree before it even gets started, but let me assure you that there will be plenty of time for that down the road.

Brett

 

[eddie]

Can anyone speak to the differences between the War Colleges and NPS? Just because I'm curious.

 

[DanMa1156]

And real quick, what's JPME?

 

[Brett327]

And real quick, what's JPME?

This link is a word doc from NPC which will outline what it is in detail. Put simply, Joint Professional Military Education is coursework designed to increase the warfighter's "jointness" and expose officers to graduate level material in areas like national security policy and such.

Brett

 

[HH-60H]

Can anyone speak to the differences between the War Colleges and NPS? Just because I'm curious.

The War Colleges are run by the Services and they teach just that War. At the War College level the course teaches O-5/6 types how to fight war at the strategic level. What is needed to win a war... In addition to the Service run War colleges there is the National Defense University and the Industrial War College (I can't remember if that is the right name) They teach the same general things but with a different emphasis.
In addition to the O-5/6 level course, these schools also teach the Command and Staff courses for O-4/5 and in the Navy O-3 (I think). These course are the same idea, but teach war at a "lower" level.

NPS is the Naval Postgraduate School, and it is an academic college. It grants degrees in a wide variety of academic areas.

 

[FlyinSpy]

Is that just an Intel thing or is that common across the Navy for all officers? Does anyone know whether it matters what your Masters degree is in (field of study)? Is the "Navy pays me to do it" program offered to all O's or is it a competitive thing?

As far as Master's go, Brett hit it on the head with the "career neutral" comment. So many guys can pick up degrees from various sources, some good, some bad, that it's almost expected that you get one sometime by the time you're an O-4/5. Although a PG school degree is a good asset to have for post-Navy jobs, the *source* of the degree seems to mean much less at promotion time. Intel may be more "slightly career positive", especially for a related degree (i.e., no MBA), but it's not by much.

The emphasis on JPME has shifted significantly in the past couple of years. Starting in FY09, JPME-1 (USAF ACSC, Army CGSC, Navy NWC Command & Staff, etc) is now mandatory if you want to screen for command. So this makes JPME much less "career negative" than it used to be (obviously). Interestingly, though, I think this will rapidly devolve to the ticket-punch mentality that getting a Master's has become. Since the source of your JPME doesn't matter (resident or non-resident), taking the year to go to the War College will give you a hit come promotion board time, vs the guy who took his JPME non-resident and got a fast-burner FITREP at the same time.

I think this is BS, since the quality of what you get in a resident program is quite a bit higher than non-resident. I did the ACSC program non-resident, and it was a piece of cake - essentially no distraction to my day job whatsoever. I probably spent a grand total of 3 hours reviewing material, and passed all tests with scores in the mid 80s. I would have gotten a lot more intellectually out of it in a resident program, but that and $3.80 will get me a latte at Starbucks. My ticket's punched....

 

[Brett327]

I did the ACSC program non-resident, and it was a piece of cake - essentially no distraction to my day job whatsoever. I probably spent a grand total of 3 hours reviewing material, and passed all tests with scores in the mid 80s. I would have gotten a lot more intellectually out of it in a resident program, but that and $3.80 will get me a latte at Starbucks. My ticket's punched....

The gouge on the street is that the ACSC route is the least painfull. Any amplifying info? Was it irritatingly Air Force slanted, or was the info a value to you? I've seen the basic lowdown on their website, but just wanted skinny from someone who has seen the coursework.

Brett

 

[Steve Wilkins]

I don't know if I'd quite call it common, but it does happen. In years past, a NPS tour was considered a career negative and seen as someone taking their packs off and "settling" for a tour of not observed FITREPs.

Not for SWO's. I agree though, a masters degree is a masters degree is a masters degree. It matters not where you get it or what you get it in.

I know all you newbies are all excited and want to plan out your careers to the nth degree before it even gets started, but let me assure you that there will be plenty of time for that down the road.

No time like the present. You can always adjust your plan along the way. Contrary to what many of the veterans on this board put out, I believe in asking questions early and developing a career plan early.

The gouge on the street is that the ACSC route is the least painfull. Any amplifying info? Was it irritatingly Air Force slanted, or was the info a value to you? I've seen the basic lowdown on their website, but just wanted skinny from someone who has seen the coursework.

Doing mine via ACSC right now. It's not bad. Yes, it is Air Force slanted, but not annoyingly so I don't think.

 

[Brett327]

No time like the present. You can always adjust your plan along the way. Contrary to what many of the veterans on this board put out, I believe in asking questions early and developing a career plan early.

Well, there's certainly nothing wrong with having a general sense of what you'd like your career to look like, but I see way too many people putting the cart before the horse. I can't speak for SWO land, but there are just way too many variables that are out of your control until an aviator is established in his first operational command, so there's really no point in doing any meaningful career planning while people are waiting to class up for OCS, or going through the training pipeline. The best career planning one can do at that point is to focus on the task at hand so that one's options will hopefully be broader when that time comes.

Brett

 

[HH-60H]

Not for SWO's. I agree though, a masters degree is a masters degree is a masters degree. It matters not where you get it or what you get it in.

The only thing I want to add to what you and Brett said is that while the subject area is not to important for the URL working his/her way to command, it can be very useful for "alternate" career paths. If someone gets a degree in certain subject areas and an accompanying subspecialty code it can open all kinds of avenues. This is good for those who decide ship/squadron command is not for them, or those whose "traditional" careers aren't doing so hot.

 

[mkoch]

The only thing I want to add to what you and Brett said is that while the subject area is not to important for the URL working his/her way to command, it can be very useful for "alternate" career paths. If someone gets a degree in certain subject areas and an accompanying subspecialty code it can open all kinds of avenues. This is good for those who decide ship/squadron command is not for them, or those whose "traditional" careers aren't doing so hot.

Going off of this, I recall reading something on the websites for testpilot school and astronaut selection that they strongly prefer people with advanced degrees in "traditional sciences", e.g. bio/chem/physics/math.

 

[FlyinSpy]

The gouge on the street is that the ACSC route is the least painfull. Any amplifying info? Was it irritatingly Air Force slanted, or was the info a value to you? I've seen the basic lowdown on their website, but just wanted skinny from someone who has seen the coursework.

At least until recently, all the other non-resident Phase 1 courses were quota controlled - I tried for several years to get into the NWC distance learning, and never made the cut. ACSC is open to all, including USN O-3s. Just get onto the website, sign up, and they mail you the materials. You can then go to any of about a kajillion "Testing Sites" to take the 6 tests. Do three online assignments (a self-assessment, a "Captain's Call" speech, and an ATO-cyclish wargame), and you're done. Can't speak to the material in the other Service courses, but ease of access makes ACSC the choice if you want to just knock it out.

The material is a mix of history, current ops issues, and some management theory. I wouldn't say it's Air Force centric, although it certainly has an "airpower uber alles" slant at times. Since a good chunk of the material is about how a CAOC is stuctured and how an air campaign is fought, it really helps to have worked OEF, OIF, or ONW/OSW. With minimal effort, you can apply what you learned in real life to some of the more academic aspects and pass. To be perfectly honest, 2 of the 6 tests I took without ever cracking the books - just to see if I could. Got some of my higher scores on those two...

The test makers are kind of tricky, though - they are some of the best multiple choice tests I've taken. By "best", I mean able to determine whether you did your homework and read the material. Standard 4 answers, two of which you can usually throw out. The other two, though, tend to both make sense - if you do the reading, you'll get it. If you don't, you'll have to pretty careful about how you choose your answers. (Also, some of the questions relate to movie files that come on the CDs they send you, but are not in the reading. You end up with questions like "In the video presentation by Col Hapablap, he states that....") A very helpful site is http://allpme.com; you can sign up, pay a few bucks, and get access to what the Air Force calls "Dirty Purples" - cliff notes for ACSC. Gouge-o-matic.

Useful? Maybe. I had already picked up a lot, thanks to the Navy + day job. I think making it mandatory for all is a very good idea though, because some of the concepts are important, and it's too easy to keep your head down & blinders on in some jobs/career tracks. By exposing people to a common set of material, hopefully it will help break down some of the inter-Service misunderstandings. Of course, the Air Force is still as a$$ed-up as a football bat, but that's a topic for another time....

 

[zippy]

The only thing I want to add to what you and Brett said is that while the subject area is not to important for the URL working his/her way to command, it can be very useful for "alternate" career paths. If someone gets a degree in certain subject areas and an accompanying subspecialty code it can open all kinds of avenues. This is good for those who decide ship/squadron command is not for them, or those whose "traditional" careers aren't doing so hot.

Are you getting the Masters in Strategic Intelligence at JMIC? If so, what was the process that you had to run through to get the nomination from the Navy?