texas_fighter
Registered User
I was wondering if after being selected as a Marine NFO (or even a Navy NFO)if you have the option of choosing which aircraft you would like to fly in. Also what does the swimming test consist of?? Thanks!
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Marine NFO's
- Thread starter texas_fighter
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there are only a few aircraft you can choose from. the prowler, hornet, hercules, super stallion, huey, and cobra and eventually the the ophsrey. the only one i believe that you can not choose is the harrier. and it works the same way as the pilots choice of aircraft. the navy's needs, grades, and then your choice.
texas_fighter
Registered User
Thanks to all of you for your answers. I'm only a sophomore in college but I start NROTC this semester. Good luck to all with there military careers.
Hornets or Prowlers is correct. There is no way you'll be in Harriers, C-130's, Ospreys or any other sort of helo. Just some things to think about, though... Prowlers are a good choice, but be careful, if you're too tall, they're out of the question. It's not just height though, it's got something to do with your arm and leg lenghts. I'm 6'2", and I'm too tall for Prowlers, and I know a few of my buddies who are shorter than me are disqualified as well. If it's hornets you want, if you go Marine Option, you've got a pretty good chance of getting them, but... the Marines had this great idea of taking F/A-18C (that's single seat) Hornet pilots and making them F/A-18D (that's two seat) Hornet pilots. BIG mistake. It's probably an NFO's worst nightmare to be in the cockpit with a pilot who has a single-seat mentality. I met some Marines in Japan a year ago where this was the case, and it's not a situation I'd want to be in. The Navy is turning it's F-14 (two seat) Tomcat pilots into F/A-18F (two seat) pilots and its F/A-18C (single seat) Hornet pilots into F/A-18E (single seat) Hornet pilots. (noticed I just used a lot of words to tell you that the navy isn't going to cross-train their pilots in single and two seated aircraft). There's a few Marine WSO's that I've met wishing they knew this going in. Let me know if you got any more questions.
Matt
Matt
texas_fighter
Registered User
Thanks for your answer Matt. Very informative. This might be a dumb question but I don't fully get what you mean when you say Marine WSO's don't like flying with single-seat mentality pilots. Maybe I didn't read the response right or something but either way could you explain it to me. Thanks!
Very informative. Don't forget that the Marines also like to rotate their aviators to ground billets. As a Marine aviator you might want to do a year as a Forward Air Controller (FAC). There are other ground billets available (i.e. NFO trainer, etc.) but a FAC will get you back to the cockpit quicker. Something to think about if you are interested in being a Marine NFO as opposed to a Navy NFO.
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Mongol General: ... Conan, what is best in life?
Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women!
Mongol General: That is good.
Tex,
A Marine WSO (Weapon Systems Officer, the job title of the backseaters in F/A-18D's) will always train to fly with a pilot. Pilots do not always train to fly with NFO's. This makes sense because not all aircraft are two-seaters. The problem is when a pilot get all the way through flight training and starts flying single-seat airplanes, and then he gets tossed into a two-seat airplane. He has a "single-seat mentality." He's used to doing everything by himself. He's not going to utilize that second head (NFO) in the cockpit as well as a pilot who never got to fly a single-seater and was bred to be a two-seater pilot. This is what I mean when I say that a Marine WSO (or any NFO for that matter) wouldn't really enjoy flying with a pilot who has that single-seat mentality.
Farkle,
FAC is just more fun. If you're going Marine NFO, do that. Kimphil can give you more information, but it's probably a combination of a) the job is just shorter (some tours are a year, some two, some three) and b) FAC is something that they want everyone else in the Fleet to know about (You're gaining great experience and knowledge as a FAC, while you're not really gaining anything from being an NFO instructor). But again, Kimphil knows better than I. Also, the Navy will send you back to a shore tour as well. After flight school, you'll be deployable for your first three years, then rotate back to a shore position (NFO instructor, Admiral's aide, test pilot/NFO school, all sorts of other jobs...) for about 3 years. The Marine's jobs are a little different, and judging by the graphic you have with the soldier and the SAW, I'd say they're right up your alley. As I understand it, you can go play grunt for a little while (see above FAC discussion) then after a little while, say that that was fun and go back to your cushy jet job. But it's the Navy/Marines: There's not really any BAD options out there, just ones that suck a little more than others.
A Marine WSO (Weapon Systems Officer, the job title of the backseaters in F/A-18D's) will always train to fly with a pilot. Pilots do not always train to fly with NFO's. This makes sense because not all aircraft are two-seaters. The problem is when a pilot get all the way through flight training and starts flying single-seat airplanes, and then he gets tossed into a two-seat airplane. He has a "single-seat mentality." He's used to doing everything by himself. He's not going to utilize that second head (NFO) in the cockpit as well as a pilot who never got to fly a single-seater and was bred to be a two-seater pilot. This is what I mean when I say that a Marine WSO (or any NFO for that matter) wouldn't really enjoy flying with a pilot who has that single-seat mentality.
Farkle,
FAC is just more fun. If you're going Marine NFO, do that. Kimphil can give you more information, but it's probably a combination of a) the job is just shorter (some tours are a year, some two, some three) and b) FAC is something that they want everyone else in the Fleet to know about (You're gaining great experience and knowledge as a FAC, while you're not really gaining anything from being an NFO instructor). But again, Kimphil knows better than I. Also, the Navy will send you back to a shore tour as well. After flight school, you'll be deployable for your first three years, then rotate back to a shore position (NFO instructor, Admiral's aide, test pilot/NFO school, all sorts of other jobs...) for about 3 years. The Marine's jobs are a little different, and judging by the graphic you have with the soldier and the SAW, I'd say they're right up your alley. As I understand it, you can go play grunt for a little while (see above FAC discussion) then after a little while, say that that was fun and go back to your cushy jet job. But it's the Navy/Marines: There's not really any BAD options out there, just ones that suck a little more than others.
texas_fighter
Registered User
MVS26 I see what your saying. Thanks for you time and help. Good luck to all!
I believe FAC is a one year committment. Other billets are longer. I believe an NFO trainer, flight instructors, etc. have a three year committment. Of course, any number of other billets are available, with there advantages and disavantages. When aviation billets are assigned, Marines who have done non-aviation billets get priority over those who have done aviation billets (this doesn't apply to new aviators coming from fleet replacement).
I used FAC as an example since its one of the billets with the shortest committments, assuming you want to get back to the cockpit sooner. It's also possible never to have to serve a ground billet, depending on what plane you fly. I would guess it's highly unlikely to happen with the F/A-18, but it could happen with the KC-130 (although the latest version of the KC-130 the USMC is deploying doesn't have NFOs).
Thanks MVS26, I assumed that the Navy had a similar practice. However, I doubt they would have very little need, if any, for FAC so I would imagine some of the Marines non-aviation billets would be more "fun" than the Navy non-aviation billets.
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Mongol General: ... Conan, what is best in life?
Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women!
Mongol General: That is good.
radio_freq
Registered User
What are a FACs duties? Does FAC stand for Forward Air Controller? Thanks
Yep. Coordinate the dropping of munitions from aircraft the ground, usually close to the target. Somewhat a dangerous job (the biggest disadvantage) especially if you are doing FAC for the Air Force (just kidding! No flames!).
Seriously, have you heard that Air Force is going to court martial two pilots for killing four Canadian troops in a friendly fire exercise? The pilots defense, they were hopped up on Air Force prescribed speed and their judgement was impaired.
Friendly fire is a definite disadvantage to FAC (Oh yeah, and the bad guys are shooting at you too). Something to think about.
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Mongol General: ... Conan, what is best in life?
Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women!
Mongol General: That is good.
Matt,
You certainly have a different perspective then what I've known. First, if you think your too tall for Prowlers at 6'2", guess again. I can introduce you to a number of pilots and NFO's who are over 6'3". The new skipper of Q-3 is over 6'3". Regarding F-18D's, initially WSO's find it difficult with the single seat mentality but so do pilots. The airplane is designed for two and can only be operated, to be effective, by two. Pilots that don't play nice usually don't last long and NFO's who think they can put the banana in front of the monkey to make him fly also have limited longevity. Professionalism generally prevails. Considering the assistant Commandant is an NFO, I think the bias has been squelched. I will admit that the Navy is a different story and there is a great desparity between pilots and NFO's.
After your first year, FAC, Flight Instructor or Amphibious Warfare School is the usually choices for pilots. FAC and AWS being the least favored but if you suck up a 1 year FAC billet the monitor generally will assign you to flight school if you desire. Instructor billets can be hard to come by. NFO's are a different story. FAC is a possibility but a limited number go this route. AWS is a good choice from a promotion stand point. NFO's especially, ECMO's have a wide variety from which to choose from. The Electronic Warfare mystique can find them in some very colorful and interesting billets. There are more EW billets then there are ECMO's.
Hope this adds a little more insight. Frumby
Attack Pilot
Major USMCR
You certainly have a different perspective then what I've known. First, if you think your too tall for Prowlers at 6'2", guess again. I can introduce you to a number of pilots and NFO's who are over 6'3". The new skipper of Q-3 is over 6'3". Regarding F-18D's, initially WSO's find it difficult with the single seat mentality but so do pilots. The airplane is designed for two and can only be operated, to be effective, by two. Pilots that don't play nice usually don't last long and NFO's who think they can put the banana in front of the monkey to make him fly also have limited longevity. Professionalism generally prevails. Considering the assistant Commandant is an NFO, I think the bias has been squelched. I will admit that the Navy is a different story and there is a great desparity between pilots and NFO's.
After your first year, FAC, Flight Instructor or Amphibious Warfare School is the usually choices for pilots. FAC and AWS being the least favored but if you suck up a 1 year FAC billet the monitor generally will assign you to flight school if you desire. Instructor billets can be hard to come by. NFO's are a different story. FAC is a possibility but a limited number go this route. AWS is a good choice from a promotion stand point. NFO's especially, ECMO's have a wide variety from which to choose from. The Electronic Warfare mystique can find them in some very colorful and interesting billets. There are more EW billets then there are ECMO's.
Hope this adds a little more insight. Frumby
Attack Pilot
Major USMCR
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