Marine Jets: The Good, Bad, and Ugly.

[flybw]

HD,

Thats spot on. Thanks. I'll probably copy this thread and take it with me to reference. Someone really should consider writing the 'JO Tour for Dummies' so that these questions wouldn't have to be asked all the time.

I know it may be early for me to go, but the monitor is going to be here this week for his road show tour. I went last year also, and it was WAY over my head, but I could understand a bit of it, and felt a little more informed for going. I'm going to go again just to see what I can pick up.

I know you aren't currently in a gun squadron, but how is the Harrier fleet doing these days? Is the 5-15 hours a month still pretty standard for first tour dudes? I know they used to be the only fixed wing CAS platform in the 'stan, but I think some Hornets are there now on USS Boat. Also, how realistic is it to walk away from your first tour a Division lead, and what is the timeline for that to normally happen? Our old MATSG CO, east coast Hornet dude, used to say to us all the time before he left that it might be a better decision to go Harriers based on this and that, etc etc. Whats your take on this?

Again, I really appreciate all the gouge from all involved. 12 more flights to go, then I get to sit on the bench until the last winging of the FY. Sucks when they decided they had produced too many Marines all of a sudden, but so it goes.

 

[squeeze]

I'll let you know how it goes from my end.

I did a shade over 3 years in the fleet, and am on what was supposed to be a 1 year non-deploying FAC tour that has turned into a 18-ish month double-combat-tour gig. I told the monitor that I should be the first Harrier guy in line for gun squadron orders come next spring/summer, but we shall see. If I don't get right back to Yuma, the next headline may be of a PTSD-laden Captain gunning down the the MMOA staff. Only time will tell.

I'm not on any pre-planned career path or anything tough. I simply want to enjoy my time as much as I can and will punch when I'm not longer having fun. If that takes me to 20, so be it, if not, that's cool too.

/WTO, DivLead, Advanced LSO
//MMOA staff who may be reading this, that was only said tongue in cheek... or was it?

 

[Postal]

I will add that no career path is the same. You always hear about the perfect path, but I have never seen one dude complete it. I have seen dudes get good deal after good deal and others get kicked in the balls time and time again. All you can do is hit the fleet running and make yourself useful both on the ground and in the air. Your rep will proceed you and the decision makers will know if they want you back or send you on a science project.

FWIW my path:
4 1/2 years AV8B squadron
3 years AV8B RAG instructor
1 year Regimental Air Officer Okinawa (unaccompanied...well I had Harrier Dude)
2 year AV8B squadron
1 Year OIC MATSS (DIFOP only got a few hours)
Curent twilight tour at station C-12's

Good luck and do not sweat it. Grow where you are planted and it will work out.

Cheers....Postal

 

[usmarinemike]

I'm in that seat again just like all the other n00bs in this thread with not a whole lot of time left in the VTs, and am staring selection down after the next boat. I'm leaning toward Hornets, but have no problems at all with Harriers. My grades are putting me in that sweet spot to get put in Harriers (not the bigget rock star, but still well above average) and I'm A-OK with that. It's my understanding that the Hornets-Iwakuni dudes do two years there. With only a 24 month tour are they expected to rotate out of the cockpit when they come back or do they go straight into another Hornet squadron? If they are expected to do a B billet, doesn't that put them at a disadvantage since they didn't get the time to bake into section and div leads on their 24 month tour? Also how is the quality of family life and squadron life in Iwakuni? I'm still trying to figure out whether I want to put it before or after Harriers on the list.

 

[flybw]

Im still at the FRS, so my knowledge is only slightly better than yours, but from what I understand tours in Iwakuni are 3 years, not 2. When we selected they were very specific with us about making it publicly known that Japan had better be your first choice or there was no way that they would give it to you (Kingsville). I have buddies from Meridian, however, that put it # 2 or 3, and still got it because their staff understood that they wanted Hornets more than Harriers.

Bottom line, just put down what you want, in the order you want it. Dont try to game the system. You never know what the monitor will have that week, and how it will all play out.

 

[usmarinemike]

Im still at the FRS, so my knowledge is only slightly better than yours, but from what I understand tours in Iwakuni are 3 years, not 2. When we selected they were very specific with us about making it publicly known that Japan had better be your first choice or there was no way that they would give it to you (Kingsville). I have buddies from Meridian, however, that put it # 2 or 3, and still got it because their staff understood that they wanted Hornets more than Harriers.

Bottom line, just put down what you want, in the order you want it. Dont try to game the system. You never know what the monitor will have that week, and how it will all play out.

Yeah, not gaming it at all. I just haven't figured out yet whether or not I want to be in a hornet in Japan more than I want to be in a Harrier CONUS. It's a good problem to have.

 

[MIDNJAC]

Did you like air to air? Did you like having one engine? Did you like being solo?

After my failed attempt at snagging a Prowler slot, my next priority was being single seat no matter the cost. In hindsight, I can't believe that I didn't put charlies Miramar for all 5 (or 6?) of my choices. If you feel the same way about flying alone, I wouldn't overlook the Harrier. It seems like a pretty cool platform, minus all the negative stuff you hear from the Hornet crowd

edit: wow, that didn't make much sense. Legacy hornet for Navy guys like me = single seat guarantee, like the Harrier for USMC. In case anyone reading who isn't in the know is reading and can't figure out what I'm trying to say

 

[flybw]

Ya no problem. Just trying to tell you what my thought process was. I wanted to fly the Hornet, period. So I put East / Japan / West / Cherry Point / Yuma.

My thought process was that I would take my platform over location, and just go from there. When it came to my Harrier choices, I wanted to be in NC over Yuma for several different reasons. Luckily for me, I got my first choice.

I really enjoy flying the Hornet. Its a lot of work, but I feel that my learning curve from the VTs to now has really gone up. USMC guys train as single seat (since we dont know where we will be until you get to a MAG (unless you go Japan, 242 is a Delta squadron) and I really enjoy being by myself, and figuring stuff out for myself. You get to take a lot of ownership for your actions and when you screw something up, you learn from it.

I have several friends in the Harrier rag and they seem to really enjoy it as well. They have to learn how to fly again, more or less, but they seem to have a fun time. Lots of Air to Ground, obviously, so if thats your gig, then its a no brainer.

 

[draad]

FWIW, Marines are planning to buy 35Cs now AND the 35B training squadron (VMFAT501) is actually moving from Eglin to Beaufort. Navy is taking the extra space in the brand new hangar there and will be in charge of all C variant training at Eglin and B training will occur at Beaufort. Also, neither Hornets or Harriers sets you up more for the F35 since it's fluctuating back and forth between which aircraft the Marines are going to phase out faster (originally intent was to actually phase out the Hornet at a faster rate than the Harrier). Finally, out of all of the RAG instructors at VMFAT501, most of them (harrier AND hornet former WTI and TopGun IPs) are leaving for their next assignment without ever getting to see the 35 at Eglin. In summary, don't make your decision based on what you think will set you up for the F-35 because it's just too hard to tell.

 

[Ralph]

For those O-5's in Hornet or Harrier units what path did they take? I know its going to vary.

 

[KBayDog]

For those O-5's in Hornet or Harrier units what path did they take? I know its going to vary.

Probably something along the lines of finishing school, OCS/Academy, TBS, etc, etc, etc...

 

[ElFuego]

I see this post hasn't been talked about for sometime now. I was reading through everything (just selected Harriers West) and there is some new developments that have happened in the last year and a half or so, ie. hornets in Japan being G-limited, Harrier's service life being extended(to include getting a new radar and the procurement of the Harriers from the brits), the unfortunate destruction of the 6 Harriers and loss of LtCol Raible, the Commandant supposedly extending fleet tours to 4 years to save $ on moves(which was undoubtedly finished with a direct knifehand, safety off), the JSF pooooosibly coming on line this year, getting told that Marine Tacair is looking pretty sorry right now and that there are too many of us, the upcoming drawdown in A-stan, etc. How are these developments affecting flight time, receiving quals, life enjoyment, deployment scheds, yada yada yada in the fleet? I've talked to a bunch of Harrier guys (still the best group of VT IP's as a whole out there, unanimously), but they've been here in the VT's for the last couple years so their info may be a little out of date.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

There isn't going to be a new radar. At least it hasn't been funded yet, and I can't see it happening as long as the F-35 keeps coming along. There won't be any more OEF deployments for harriers after the next one, so you can expect to go on one or maybe two MEU's in a tour. I haven't heard a thing about moving to 4 year tours, so it hasn't happened yet and I think we would have heard something if it was coming. As far as "quals, life enjoyment, and yada yada yada", don't suck and you will find out.

 

[Renegade One]

Don't mean to go all "Godfather" on you folks...but "[T]his is the business we've chosen."

Don't try to "game" the system too much...it can be a long career, and who knows what will change...

I'm going to totally "show my ass" here...go "legacy" Hornets...and then do so frakin' well at the boat that you get sent to a "Navy/Marine Corps Integration" squadron.
HINT: Chances seem to be better on the east coast...

I never met a pilot...not one...who ever said "I wish I had fewer traps in my log book."

 

[Treetop Flyer]

I never met a pilot...not one...who ever said "I wish I had fewer traps in my log book."

I've never met a RIO who ever said "I wish I had fewer VL's in my log book".