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Marine IA opportunities?

I know I am getting pretty ahead of myself wondering about this as I have not attended TBS yet, but I am curious as to whether it is possible at all for a Marine officer to volunteer for an IA tour to Afghanistan, before he gets to his fleet squadron. I have heard of Marine aviators getting IA orders in the middle of their first fleet tours, I would like to know if it's possible to do this earlier than that.

An opportunity to deploy to Afghanistan, especially something like being a part of an Embedded Training Team has a great deal of appeal to me right now. I joined the Marines to be an officer and an aviator, but I also strongly desire to deploy and contribute to the wars that are currently ongoing. I don't see myself having that opportunity when I get to the fleet 3-4 years from now after flight school. Could something like this also potentially derail a flying career? A quick google search revealed that IA tours, early in Marine aviators' first fleet tours, jeopardized their efforts to gain proficiency in their airframe and quals. That's why I'm wondering if anyone has ever heard of a Marine being able to do an IA tour before getting to their fleet squadron.
 

phrogdriver

More humble than you would understand
pilot
Super Moderator
Yes, I've heard of such things. I'll leave it to the younger guys for more detailed gouge. If you're serious about this, do it before starting flight school, not right before your fleet squadron. Flying skills are too perishable in the beginning to let them atrophy just after you first learn them. As I understand it, they have been offering lieutenants such opportunities before they report to Pensacola. If you get the chance, do it then. If not then, wait until you at least get some quails in your fleet aircraft and gain credibility there before going off to do other non-aviation stuff.
 

KBayDog

Well-Known Member
I joined the Marines to be an officer and an aviator, but I also strongly desire to deploy and contribute to the wars that are currently ongoing. I don't see myself having that opportunity when I get to the fleet 3-4 years from now after flight school. Could something like this also potentially derail a flying career? A quick google search revealed that IA tours, early in Marine aviators' first fleet tours, jeopardized their efforts to gain proficiency in their airframe and quals.

Yes.

phrogdriver said:
If you're serious about this, do it before starting flight school, not right before your fleet squadron.

Short answer: This.

Like Phrogdriver said, it is not unheard of to do an IA prior to joining a fleet squadron. In fact, one fixed-wing MAG sent more than a few FRS-complete aviators on IAs prior to joining their squadrons. I cannot speak with any authority as to how they fared in the Fleet, but theirs is the exception - not the norm.

In general, any time away from the cockpit early in your flying career can very quickly derail your flying career (though, to be honest, not necessarily your Marine Corps career). By the time you've finished flight school, you're no longer one of a "SWAG'd" number of applicants that the Corps is hoping can fill a billet a few years down the road - you're one of a very small number of new Aviators that are being counted on to fill vacancies in a MAG somewhere after the FRS...which means that you are expected to go to the FRS, get your initial quals, and get to your Fleet squadron. Depending on where you wind up going, there will only be a few of you in your peer group...and make no mistake about it, you're competing against each other for career opportunities.

Upon completion of the FRS, your Fleet clock is ticking. In other words, you have a limited time you are expected/permitted to be in the MAG before you pop up on the monitor's list for orders. During this time, if you want to continue with a career in Marine Aviation, you need to be fighting for MOS credibility. Read: Every flight hour, airframe qual, and flight leadership designations you can get. The squadron has a finite number of flight hours available each year, which means that it can be selective about who it grooms for certain quals. If your peer group shows up to the squadron before you (because you're on an IA), they're going to get first dibs at those hours and quals. When it comes time to rotate out of the squadron, limited quals = a limited number of available billets in the aviation field. The guys with the quals are the ones who are going to be in demand for the career-enhancing aviation-related billets, and you'll take whatever is left. This often means that you'll go away from the Fleet/away from aviation for a certain time, which makes it much harder to get back to the Fleet in a flying squadron. (Remember, while you're away counting boxes in a warehouse somewhere as a mid-to-senior Captain, your peers are on FAC tours, at career-enhancing schools, serving on forward-deployed staffs, etc. They're getting "relevant" FitReps, staying connected to the Fleet, etc. - and they'll be the first ones the Corps deems worthy of refreshing and sending back to a flying squadron to continue as a player in Marine Aviation. You, once again, will take whatever billets are left.) While the promotion board precepts generally instruct board members to look favorably on IAs, the reality is that in Aviation, IAs do not offset MOS credibility and flight quals when it comes time for the Corps to decide who it wants to retain come promotion time.

This does not mean that your days in the Corps are numbered if you fall behind in aviation - in fact, Aviators who don't max out their quals often go on to very successful careers in the Corps...just not always at the controls of aircraft.

The above, while not the 100% solution, is pretty much universal for junior Fleet pilots nowadays. The "fat" days of the mid-00s are quickly coming to a close, and there will be even fewer available flight hours, fewer seats in Fleet squadrons, etc. Like phrogdriver said, if you're dying for an IA, try to get it done before API. Give yourself a clean slate in Marine Aviation once you check in to API, because you're going to need every flight hour and qualification to be competitive and remain relevant in our upcoming Right-Sized Marine Corps.
 

KBayDog

Well-Known Member
If not then, wait until you at least get some quails in your fleet aircraft and gain credibility there before going off to do other non-aviation stuff.

I disagree. I wouldn't go out of my way to get any birds in your aircraft.

While BASH incidents don't tend to negatively affect one's career, they do have the potential to negatively affect one's life expectancy.
 
Thanks for the insightful responses gentlemen. I don't think I want to compromise MOS credibility for the sake of an IA billet. So I will heed the recommendation to try to do one before API. I don't suppose doing an IA that early would have any negative consequences for a flying career would it?
 

KBayDog

Well-Known Member
...I will heed the recommendation to try to do one before API. I don't suppose doing an IA that early would have any negative consequences for a flying career would it?

Nah, shouldn't affect you too much career-wise - you'll have plenty of time to make a name for yourself (or not) in aviation prior to the career decision points. Not starting API right after TBS is not uncommon. The wait for API ebbs and flows; plenty of Marine studs went off and did different productive things during some extended waits for API. Just realize that IAs might not be available, and you might not be allowed to go on one anyway based on when you class up for API.

phrogriver said:
Damn you Apple OS 10 Lion! Damn you to hell!!!

My simple Windows machine and Chrome browser operates on the GIGO principle - it doesn't try to think for me; it assumes that I meant what I typed. (I wonder if the kid who landed on a street in FL had an Apple GPS that "auto-corrected" his destination?)
 

Achilles

That dog won't hunt, Monsignor!
pilot
I can't speak how an IA will affect your flying career as I'm still waiting on orders to Pensacola, but my IA was a rewarding experience. I don't know if you can count on being given the opportunity, my class literally found out about a week prior to TBS graduation. As part of a group who attended IOC then deployed to Afghanistan, I have no idea if they're planning on doing it again. That's a question you'll just have to wait and see on when you graduate TBS, every class is unique. For our situation all the stars just kind-of aligned. If you end up going to IOC, have fun, it's the most fun I never want to have again.
 

AJB37

Well-Known Member
I can't speak how an IA will affect your flying career as I'm still waiting on orders to Pensacola, but my IA was a rewarding experience. I don't know if you can count on being given the opportunity, my class literally found out about a week prior to TBS graduation. As part of a group who attended IOC then deployed to Afghanistan, I have no idea if they're planning on doing it again. That's a question you'll just have to wait and see on when you graduate TBS, every class is unique. For our situation all the stars just kind-of aligned. If you end up going to IOC, have fun, it's the most fun I never want to have again.

Also, don't piss off your SPC... there were more volunteers than slots available for guys to go to IOC, and ended up coming down to SPC recommendation/ class standing.
 

Erin M.

Well-Known Member
pilot
Right now, the wait for API is minimal. There are guys in the pool here that did IA billets before API, but they all came from previous fiscal year classes. 2010 Alpha and 2010 Bravo guys.... Everyone getting there now is being sent straight to NOMI/NAMI to get PQed and started in IFS. There are a few billets available for long wait guys, but they seem to be reserved for Med-hold guys or redes guys, not guys who can be stuffed into the pipeline. This past month they were hurting for Marines to push into API, so the MATSG is pushing guys through the pipeline as fast as they are qualified.
 
It seems like with news that the Marine combat mission in Afghanistan may end by 2012, that this may not even be remotely possible anyway. But the opportunity was definitely something that peaked my interest. Is the fact that there is very little wait time to class up at API indicative that the Marine Corps is in need of aviators?
 

Erin M.

Well-Known Member
pilot
Ebb and flow. Big Marine Corps operates in mysterious ways. Don't worry about predicting what the Marine Corps may or may not need now because it's needs are so volatile. It wouldn't help you anyway; I'm assuming you're already an air contract so the only part you can really affect is done. Whether or not you're able to accurately determine the needs of the Marine Corps is irrelevant because it is going to tell you where it wants you at the time it needs you there. At this stage, you're damn near powerless to change any of that. Your track is going to be TBS - MATSG-21 (IFS, API) --> Primary ---> Intermediate --> Advanced --> FRS ---> etc. You might get something before coming to Pensacola to check into MATSG-21, but you wouldn't be able to forecast it now and even if you could, you really wouldn't be able to make any plans that benefit you. If you come straight here, same deal. Not trying to dismiss your question. The truth is, I don't know whether or not the Marine Corps needs aviators as a whole, I only know they have a lot of spots to fill in API right now.
 

phrogdriver

More humble than you would understand
pilot
Super Moderator
Not to give you too much crap, but your parents should have spelled "Aaron" the right way. When I saw your avatar picture, I thought a wife was giving career advice and was about to open fire until I checked your profile.
 

squeeze

Retired Harrier Dude
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
The truth is, I don't know whether or not the Marine Corps needs aviators as a whole, I only know they have a lot of spots to fill in API right now.

Seeing as Career Designation is no longer automatic for aviators, that's more likely than you may think. Getting from 202k+ to 174k means cuts in all kinds of areas.
 
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