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Marine Helos

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EA-6B1

EA-6B1

PLC Jrs 1st Inc. Kilo-3
As the realization settles in that most Marine aviators are helo drivers, I wanted to get a grasp on them. I honestly don't know much about them.

What are the missions of the Marine Helos? Where are the RAGs for them?
Where are they stationed?
Are all Helos attatched to a MEU(SOC)?
Do they deploy as often as the Jets?
Are the tours the same as the fixed wing side of the house? (three year tour, some other MOS, and then back to flying job?)
Make sure I got them all...
UH-1 Huey
AH-1 Cobra
CH-53 Sea Stallion
CH-46 Sea Knight
I guess I'll list the V-22 Osprey, but I know that there is some serious budgeting issues going on. Why don't they can the idea and put the work towards the JSF? Oh man, I'm going to get the heat for that one.

Thanks for the info in advance. I basically wanted to start a thread where we can talk about Marine Helos. I don't see them talked about that much. Thanks.
 
P

plmtree

Registered User
I was stationed at MAG-39 Camp Pendleton, CA and I'm somewhat familiar to the helo side of the Marine Corps and I'm pretty sure somebody else can add to what I got here.

Missions for the Marine helos are pretty much like everything else in the Marine Corps, support for the grunts.

They're stations are:
MAG 36 at Okinawa JA, medium helos. They also run the UDP's.
MAG 39 at Camp Pendleton, CA medium and light attack helos.
MAG 16 at Miramar, CA medium and heavy helos.
MAG 26 and 29 at New River, NC with all three types of helos.
HMX 1 at Quantico/DC with the President's helos, they also do the testing on all future aircraft there too.

Helos get attached to the MEUs just like the infantry units do. In a MAG you'll see rotations between all the squadrons. They all go on MEUs. You get a composite squadron on a MEU that includes all rotary wing aircraft, Harriers, C130's and their corresponding support personnel. Alltogether they form the ACE for the MEU.

Helos also have to provide aircraft and pesonnel to support the UDP's. These are the ones where you get to go live on the rock for 6 months, kinda like a MEU but on solid ground.

The Osprey is coming around. They've been doing really well since their unfortunate accidents. They're not going to can the Osprey because sooner or later the Stallions and Sea Kights are going to fall apart. After 20+ years of service most of those helos are old they already are falling apart. Besides, if you see what happened during OEF/OIF you can see that the Marine Corps is not just a landing party anymore, we're starting to go further inland and with that you need aircraft that is going to be able to support you. The Osprey is going to fill in right there. It can go further inland and carry more stuff than the Sea Knights and Stallions.
We can't just sit on our butts and be content with the way the Marine Corps is structured right now. It works now, but what about later, 50 years down the road? Look at what happened to the Army. They're pretty much copying the Marine Corps mission and warfare manuals. They want to become lighter and more mobile force because they stood content with the way they were organized, which was perfect for a WWII scenario; but that's not the scenario we have now, is it? Their tanks are too heavy, their infantry units are too big. It takes them anywhere from 3-9 months to deploy to theater! With the Marine Corps, we're ready in a fraction of that time. Not just with the MEU's but with every deployable unit in the Marine Corps. Anyway, I know I'm going way off the subject, but that's my two cents on that.

The Osprey already has a squadron at New River, training squadron (VMMT), but a squadron nontheless. And its not like we're going to see a complete turnover of aircraft, they'll be phased in slowly but surely.

Hueys and Super Cobras are Light Attack (HMLA's)
Sea Kights are Mediums (HMM's)
and Super Stallions are the Heavy's (HMH's)

I hope I've covered all your questions, if not, I'll be happy to answer any questions you or anybody else might have.
 
46Driver

46Driver

"It's a mother beautiful bridge, and it's gon
MCAS New River Squadrons (East Coast): 2 Huey/Cobras, 2 CH-53E's, 6 CH-46E's, also the CH-53E FRS
MCAS Miramar Squadrons (West Coast): 4 CH-53E, 4 CH-46E
Camp Pendleton Squadrons (West Coast): 4 Huey/Cobras, 2 CH-46E's, Huey/Cobra FRS, CH-46E FRS
MCAS Kanoehe Bay Squadrons (Hawaii): 3 or 4 CH-53D
Okinawa Squadrons (Japan): 2 CH-46E + detachments from the West Coast Huey/Cobra and CH-53E

There is no way that an Osprey can carry more payload than a CH-53E. Also, the range of the
CH-53E's is considerable (they carry 15,500 lbs of fuel), the Navy's MH-53E's go further still with 22,000 lbs of fuel.

As for falling apart, that is the CH-53D's in Hawaii. They have never been SLEP'ed (service life extension program) Meanwhile, the Phrogs have new rotor heads, new cockpits with GPS, and are getting new engines. The 53E's will be around for a long time too - they are due to be rebuilt with more powerful engines (possibly 3 of the MV-22 engines) and a new glass cockpit. Reference that the CH-53D's did not go to Iraq or Afghanistan while all of the Marine Reserve squadrons (2 Huey/Cobras, 2 CH-53E, and 2 CH-46E) are being called up.

There are some new developments on the horizon besides the Osprey. Piasecki is working on a pusher propellor mod to the H-60 which increases speed to 210+ knots (www.piasecki.com) It is called a compound helicopter for those wanting to do a google search. Army almost bought a version in Vietnam called the AH-56 Cheyenne but was too expensive at the time. Also, Boeing is working on the X-50 Dragonfly which is canard/rotor wing. (look on the Boeing webpage in the Phantom Works section). It can both hover and then fly at 400 plus knots. It had its first test flight last month.

As for that quote about getting rid of the V-22 and replacing it with the JSF, it does bring into focus the coming train wreck for appropriations. MV-22, JSF, F/A-18E, F-22, Comanche - lots of high dollar items and not enough money - the Army's Crusader program has already been cancelled.
 
EA-6B1

EA-6B1

PLC Jrs 1st Inc. Kilo-3
After your first assignment for 3 years, is it back to a stash job, or can a helo driver go back and be an instructor? What's after the second assignment?
 
46Driver

46Driver

"It's a mother beautiful bridge, and it's gon
NO telling how long your first tour will be: some two years and then a FAC tour, others might stay in a squadron for 6+ years like I did. Some want to get their overseas control date and get to a "B" billet - others get comfortable in the squadron (as a senior captain life is good because the field grades come and go so quickly). But yes, you can go back and be an instructor if there are slots available - just like it is with a SNA waiting to see what's available the week you select (and like an SNA, you can always get helos.... :)

Roughly 2 Cobras for every Huey in an HML/A squadron (yes, they are in the same squadron). They are separate MOS's for Cobra and Huey pilots and generally they don't switch aircraft but with the "Z" and "Y" coming online, that might change. I'll see what some of the skid bubbas here at the squadron say.
 
skidkid

skidkid

CAS Czar
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Gunners are aviators and train for both seats you usually start out in the front and move to the back as you gain experience
 
O

Odom

Registered User
Just to clarify the verbiage. No one is a called gunner in a Cobra. They are called Front seat pilot and rear seat pilot. Seating is based on either syllabus requirements or the signer's preference. Some dudes always like to fly in the front to lead larger missions or FAC(A) and put the young guys in the back.
 
R

Rotorhead

Registered User
Yes, although the flight controls in the front are mounted on the sides (kind of like in an F-16). You can fly it from the front but its exhausting if you do it for long periods of time (like my recent cross country to Yuma from New River in a Cobra). The front seat usually handles the PGMs and the gun and the rear seat usually handles the flying and some of the ordnance.

Id bet a paycheck that when the Y and Z hit the street that we do not cross train. There will always be a division in the squadron between the Huey guys and the Cobra guys. I guarantee it.
 
AirRyan

AirRyan

Registered User
I think he was referring to FREST, which stands for "Fleet Replenishment Enlisted Skills Training" and is where the enlisted guys at least go to from their A schools to learn on the actual aircrafts that they are to be working on. It's also where the pilots go when they graduate flight school and assigned an airframe, although it's called something different for them, at least for jets as I understand. I was was in Avi for the Phrogs so I'm not keen on all the "O" routes and such.

Am I the only one who thinks that replacing the most numerous aircraft type in the Marines with the V-22, an aircraft that appears to have a very big temper as far as it's flight handling is concerned, is a bit unwise? The Army is buying more Blackhawks and Chinooks, not wasting their funds on an Osprey that gains them a little more speed.

The only thing an Osprey can do better than a modern medium lift helo such as the US-101 for example, as I understand it, is simply speed. Equally loaded they both have about the same range, but what good is it going to be when the V-22's have to wait for the Cobras for guns support, especially since the V-22's don't have any firing arcs for the two .50 cals that they could otherwise mount on the Phrogs? "Hurry up and wait" takes on a whole new meaning. I like the V-22 alright, but just in about 1/3 the numbers the Corps is planning on buying.
 
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