Marine General Counseled for Comments

[phrogdriver]

To answer the earlier "Patton" reference, Gen Patton actually got in HUGE hot water with Ike and had to stand on the sidelines on D-Day after making an ass of himself in the papers of the day.

I served under LtGen Mattis (then MajGen) during OEF. He's a character, to say the least.

On the subject of speaking in public, remember that this is a war of hearts and minds as well as one of shooting. We want the Iraqis to embrace democracy and America. You don't get that result if they think you like shooting them.

 

[airwinger]

I think Gen. Mattis pretty much knew he isn't going much higher. When he moved from CG 1stMarDiv to MCCDC, I remember him being quoted as saying that officers such as himself don't get to be commandant. I heard a couple of guys wonder why he didn't get CG 1 MEF. The last couple of commandants have been CG of I MEF if I recall correctly and he had done a superb job with TF58 and 1stMarDiv.

A4s: I love "Tommy" despite having only served since 1998, I remember one older lady refusing to shake my or my recruiter's hand after boot camp, to the post 2001 "let me buy you a beer" pretty soon we'll be back to the good old "soldiers and dogs off the grass"

 

[illinijoe05]

Gentlemen,
As I am only a lowly MIDN my take on this matter my not mean much o you but hear is my two cents...

As stated earlier a large part of our mission is to win the hearts and minds of the people of not only Iraq but the enitre middle east so that we can stop terrorism at its source (their hatred of us). While we as american service members can relate with what the good general said, what he said was not only wrong to say but counter prodecutive. I looked on cnn.com when this story came out and the story included htis part of the quote

You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil," Mattis said. "You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them."

But when i visited Al-jeezera it made no mention of the slaping women part. All that was mentioned was that (the story is no loinger on jezeera so this may not be exact) "Guys that aint got no manhood left anyway,so its a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them". This is the amjor problem with his comment. He has to be intelligent enough to know that his comments would be taken out of context. If not what is he doing as a three star (even if he is a marine...). Gen Mattis is no doubt a fine American and has served with great honor, but he deserves to be punished for what he did much like the marine Cpl who shot the wounded Iraqi in the head was. In the eyes of the international press each was just as bad, but the General is getting off while the cpl was removed form his unit and is currently under reviwe for a courts martial. There is a time and palce for what he said and that was definatly not either. I know many of you will say that it was jsut words and its not like he took another persons life like the cpl did but what he said could (and likely will) lead to more young Muslim men strapping a bomb to his chest blowing himself and others up.
ANyways thats just my thoughts on the situation

God bless the Marine Corps

PS Interesting enough there is a movie coming out about Gen Mattis starring harrison ford.

 

[A4sForever]

As I am only a lowly MIDN ...
Gen Mattis is no doubt a fine American and has served with great honor, but he deserves to be punished for what he did much like the marine Cpl who shot the wounded Iraqi in the head was ....he took another persons life ....There is a time and palce for what (the Gen) said and that was definatly (sic) not either

A lowly Middie? No problem, as many of us have been there.

As for the rest of your post -- you have a lot to learn about warfare and your place in the U.S. Military -- and you don't have a lot of time. Re: the Marine who "took another persons life" ... good grief, Midshipman, what do you think happens in war? Don't start in about "wounded Iraqis" as if they were innocent bystanders in this case. In Falujah, many wounded insurgents were still snakes and just as dangerous -- you weren't there and do not have a clue -- except for what you gather from outlets like ... CNN and Al Jazeera ???

You need to check out sources other than Al Jazeera and CNN -- but I am sure you do, right? And make sure the military is the place for you before you are put in a position where you have to take "another life". Your shipmates may be depending on you ... I hope you have what it takes to be an officer and a leader -- even if it means taking "another life".

 

[Fly Navy]

Gentlemen,
As I am only a lowly MIDN my take on this matter my not mean much o you but hear is my two cents...

I was at one time too. So were a lot of the guys here.

While we as american service members can relate with what the good general said, what he said was not only wrong to say but counter prodecutive.

I disagree. It was completely acceptable for him to say it. It wasn't acceptable to say it with a reporter nearby. Just like writing "Hijack this, fags!" on bombs. Do it when the people aren't taking quote and taking pictures.

but he deserves to be punished for what he did much like the marine Cpl who shot the wounded Iraqi in the head was. In the eyes of the international press each was just as bad, but the General is getting off while the cpl was removed form his unit and is currently under reviwe for a courts martial.

Oh, so I guess you know for sure that the Marine Cpl is guilty of killing an "innocent"? You're privy to this information? I'll tell you what, I hope he's left alone. There is a reason he plugged that bad guy. Do you even know what they're doing over there? Bad-guys either pretend they are wounded, or if they're wounded, they also lure Americans in and then either shoot them or blow themselves up. You fight fire with fire, young man (lady?). I accept his tactics and responding to a tactic the enemy uses. **** happens. Are you a trigger puller? Are you in Iraq?

I know many of you will say that it was jsut words and its not like he took another persons life like the cpl did

I love this line. Do you know the line of work you're going to be entering? I'm in complete agreement with A4s, and I'm sure everyone else will be too. We kill people and break their ****. That's our job. I haven't done it yet, I'm still an SNA, but I know I will have a high chance of doing it, like most of us will. We've come to terms with that, and will have to again when the time actually comes. You need some soul searching.

 

[Flash]

I love this line. Do you know the line of work you're going to be entering? I'm in complete agreement with A4s, and I'm sure everyone else will be too. We kill people and break their ****. That's our job. I haven't done it yet, I'm still an SNA, but I know I will have a high chance of doing it, like most of us will. We've come to terms with that, and will have to again when the time actually comes. You need some soul searching.

Cut the guy a little slack. I think he was trying to say basically the same thing as I did in an earlier post, he just used some words differently. I think his position is for the large part reasonable. I believe the Marine who shot the insurgent has not been tried and convicted, the only thing so far is that there is an ongoing investigation into his actions. Shooting someone who is unarmed is against the rules, period. The big question is did the Marine know the man he shot to be unarmed? That is a question that I hope is answered eventually. Innocent until proven guilty.

As for the possibility of taking someones life, I think all of us here realize that to some degree. But to jump all over the guy because he phrases a question differently than you or I would, saying that the Marine "took someone else's life", is a little premature. Nowhere in his post does he question the need of 'killing' someone. So, he used some different terminology. No need to tell him of needing to go do some soul searching.

 

[Fly Navy]

Cut the guy a little slack. I think he was trying to say basically the same thing as I did in an earlier post, he just used some words differently. I think his position is for the large part reasonable. I believe the Marine who shot the insurgent has not been tried and convicted, the only thing so far is that there is an ongoing investigation into his actions. Shooting someone who is unarmed is against the rules, period. The big question is did the Marine know the man he shot to be unarmed? That is a question that I hope is answered eventually. Innocent until proven guilty.

As for the possibility of taking someones life, I think all of us here realize that to some degree. But to jump all over the guy because he phrases a question differently than you or I would, saying that the Marine "took someone else's life", is a little premature. Nowhere in his post does he question the need of 'killing' someone. So, he used some different terminology. No need to tell him of needing to go do some soul searching.

Yeah I read that now and I can see that maybe he meant it differently. That being said, everything is about wording. A phrase worded one way and mean something completely different if you just swap some words around. I wrote that at about 3am last night, so I was quite a bit foggy. Sorry.

 

[KBayDog]

Yeah I read that now and I can see that maybe he meant it differently. That being said, everything is about wording. A phrase worded one way and mean something completely different if you just swap some words around. I wrote that at about 3am last night, so I was quite a bit foggy. Sorry.

Wait - isn't "wording" why this thread got started in the first place? :icon_smil

 

[A4sForever]

LIFETAKERS and HEARTBREAKERS ??

... Cut the guy a little slack .... As for the possibility of taking someones life, I think all of us here realize that to some degree ....

You know --- I don't know if "all of us here" really DO think about the possibility of killing. Some have spent too many years in a PC Navy.

This site is repleat with heady (and valid) discussions about "tests" and "careers" and "which airplane" and "SWO vs Aviation (hah!!) and "what am I gonna get" and "what is good for me".... but not a lot of cold, hard discussions on the facts re: your new "job" and some of its tougher "realities". Sometimes the young sailors and Marines do a better job of thinking -- they are absent all the distractions of college life and scholarships.

I stand by MY call -- the Midshipman needs a "gut check" . When he/she expresses dismay and questions what is patently an obvious combat shooting and a General with a big, "Pattonesque" public mouth -- then that Midshipman may be heading down a road he or she did not fully consider .

When I joined, I wanted to be an officer in the Navy or Marines, to serve, and to fly. I wanted to be a life-taker and a heart-breaker. Most did and I had that in mind since @ age 7. But that was then and during "wartime" --- ooops --- isn't that what they call it today??? "What's in it for me" and those other great moral questions of the day were usually the domain of those who chose NOT to serve -- even though there was a draft and that little nuisance in SE Asia. Irony of ironies -- nuisance derives from the French :icon_smok ... so did Indo-China

Give 'em some slack ??? Not until they deserve it. And We WILL ALL get what we deserve.

There is NO SLACK IN MEDIUM ATTACK -- or LIGHT ATTACK , either.

ROGER BALL !!

 

[KBayDog]

When I joined, I wanted to be an officer in the Navy or Marines, to serve, and to fly. I wanted to be a life-taker and a heart-breaker.

If you wanted to be a life-taker and heart-breaker, why did you join the Navy?

 

[perchul]

Oh Snap

 

[A4sForever]

If you wanted to be a life-taker and heart-breaker, why did you join the Navy?

'Cause my eyeballs got "better" and I wanted to jet around on and off USS BOAT ... No more Marine option for me when I clawed out a 20/20 on the eye-chart! Of course, that was then ... Marines seldom went to the BOAT. The Major was NOT pleased with this Midshipman.

And after 2/C cruise at Pendleton, I decided that I did not want to eat and shave out of my steel pot and poop in the bushes ... I'd rather use the head (?). The Gunny (who had just returned from I Corps) said -- GO NAVY since I was taking Vietnamese and was heading for the Infantry. Took @ 2 years in those days to make Captain -- any guesses as to why? Gunny said: "You're going to 'Nam with the Marines, it just won't be the U.S. Marines -- !?!?"

I still go to the Marine Corps birthday party; and heck, my daughter was born on November 10 -- what more can I do ?? I call her every Nov 10 and sing the Marine Corps Hymn over the phone. Oh, yeah, and the Gunny ?? I still send Gunny a Christmas card every year thanking him ...

SEMPER FI !! and ROGER BALL !!

 

[KBayDog]

Took @ 2 years in those days to make Captain...

Two years to make 0-6? No wonder you didn't want to join our rod-and-gun club! :icon_tong

(Sorry, I had to...speaking of which, I have to get back to my - what do you call it again - "studying.")

 

[illinijoe05]

A4,
I htink you miss understood what I was trying to say. I dont think what the CPl did was anymore wrong than what the Gen. did. WHat Im trying to say is that (and should have included) the cpl acted during a combat situation where people die left and right. He was under extreme stress and possibly made a mistake and was punished (what seems to me) swiftly and severly by the marines and the press. WHere as the gen. was from the safetly of a conference room in San diego and what he did was probably just as damaging to our cause but hes getting off. I do understand that people die. I am not some flower toting hippie, rather i view myself as a responcible citizen and a concerned future officer who trys to see the whole picture in every situation before i make a decision and act. I believe that what we are doing over there is right, i just feel that we need to tread extemely lightly when it comes to saying things in front of the press.
Hope this clears things up for you.

 

[A4sForever]

Two years to make 0-6? No wonder you didn't want to join our rod-and-gun club! :icon_tong (Sorry, I had to...speaking of which, I have to get back to my - what do you call it again - "studying.")

No, you Jarhead-dunderhead. Two years to Capt, USMC !!! But you knew that anyway .

The only problem we ever had with Marine Air was HOW TO KEEP THOSE MARINE AVIATORS FLYING OVER THE LUNCH HOUR --- otherwise they would forget how ...so get back to your studying.

SEMPER FI and ROGER BALL !!