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Marine aviation in danger???

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Frumby

Super *********
pilot
Super Moderator
Well, its not the first time this has happened. The Corps has virtually sold its soul on two very radical aircraft and its coming back to haunt them but USMC Jet Aviation will always be there. It will have to lick its wounds for the next few years but it will prevail. Semper Fidelis! Frumby

Attack Pilot
Major USMC
 

Dave Shutter

Registered User
Well maybe if they got money to buy newer stuff this wouldn't be a question. The new issue of Combat Aircraft has a blurb with a pic on the newest, umpteen million'th upgrade for the AH-1 Cobra, complete with four rotors, souped up engines, digital cockpit, Sidewinders and a gun like the Apache's.

...why don't you give the Marines the money to buy real Apache's instead of the poor man's version in the first place!

I know there are a lot of Snake lovers out there, and I love e'm too, but hey...

my $0.02

D

Edited by - Dave Shutter on 04/16/2001 23:50:45
 

Tripp

You think you hate it now...
quote:...why don't you give the Marines the money to buy real Apache's instead of the poor man's version in the first place!
My thoughts exactly...
 

Frumby

Super *********
pilot
Super Moderator
I can answer that, its to damn big and a maintenance nightmare. It also doesn't fold up tight enough like a Whiskey. I knew nothing about Helo's until I became the Battalion Air Officer for Battalion Landing Team 2/8. Once you've served on a LHA (Gator Navy, Marine Amphibious Assault Ship, Helicopter Carrier)you really appreciate the compactness and lethality of the "Skid Kids."
Semper Fi! Frumby
p.s. By the way, the osprey is to big for the LHA's and LHD's but that program is being forced up our Wazoo!

Attack Pilot
Major USMC
 

webmaster

The Grass is Greener!
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
quote:I can answer that, its to damn big and a maintenance nightmare.

Frumby, didn't the Apache have a bad maintenance track record during Desert Storm/Shield? Damn sand, gets in everything. I remember talking with one of my friends in Corpus, he was a pilot with HM15, he took me on a walk around of their helos, and he went over some of their protective measures against fod damage. Just got me to thinking what kind of maintenance nightmare it probably was for any aircraft with respect to sand getting in the works. Then again, they pull apart P3s at maintenance, and find all sorts of corrosion from the salt exposure... ah well

Dang, just missed you on the forum Frumby, was typing this post, and didnt see you enter the chat room!
 

Falcaner

DCA "Don't give up the ship"
Frunby,
Quick question for you. What do you Marines Think of the LPD-17, the new Gator boat they are building right now. Only reason I ask is a friend of mine who is ex-navy is working on it, and he just raves about the thing. Thought i would be interesting to get your perpective.



Edited by - falcaner on 04/19/2001 14:58:16
 

Tripp

You think you hate it now...
Some encouraging news for the Marines:
quote:Surprise! Pentagon's Panel Backs Osprey
Aero-news.net
April 19, 2001

The Marine Commandant, General James Jones, is pleased with a recommendation made yesterday by a DoD committee, that encourages further development and testing of the trouble-plagued V-22 Osprey.

The recommendation carries a strong caveat, the nature of which is that the Osprey isn't ready to be rushed into production.

The report, on which we are reporting today, will be formally given to SECDEF Rumsfeld early next week.

General Jones, whose backing of the program has never wavered, in the face of fatal crashes, engine fires, hydraulics failures, testing shortcuts, faulty software, falsified documents -- that General Jones -- said, "This is a capability our nation needs to meet the operational requirements of the 21st century," alluding to the fact that the Marines have, for a long time, put all their helicopter "eggs" into this one "basket."

Norman Augustine, a former chairman of Lockheed Martin, spoke on behalf of the (SECDEF Cohen-appointed) panel, and pointed out that the recommendation is a conditional one: “The V-22 is probably the best answer available. It’s not ready today, though, for operational use — not close to it,” he said, citing the need for a lot more engineering, development, and operational work on the craft.

(Other members of the study panel include Eugene Covert, professor emeritus of aeronautics at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology; retired Marine Corps Gen. John Dailey, who heads the National Air and Space Museum in Washington; and former Air Force Gen. J.B. Davis.)

The Marines, who have already spent over a billion dollars each for the Ospreys they received (rather than the still-staggering $40.1 million each, as claimed) and who don't seem to have a single economist or accountant on staff, said that canceling the program, which is slated to cost another $40 billion or so on top of that original $12 billion, would be "too expensive."

The program has yet to receive full congressional approval for funding.

The Osprey program, along with sixteen other developmental items on the Pentagon's plate, is also under scrutiny by President Bush's budget cutters.

Other projects under the microscope are the brilliant JSF, the F-22 Raptor, and the probably-safe F/A-18 upgrades.

[Because the Osprey is such an expensive project, and because it has substantial constituent bases in many key states, it is not likely to be canceled, regardless of performance.

Therefore, we can only hope that they spend enough of our dollars to make it into a good machine --ed.]
 

Tripp

You think you hate it now...
A friend of mine did a paper on the Osprey for his Propulsion & Systems class. He pointed this out to me (from the USMC fact file on the MV-22):
quote:Weapon System Data Sheet

System: MV-22 Osprey

Mission: Marine Corps Assault Support

Variants: The CV-22 will be utilized by the Air Force for their Special Operations missions maintaining maximum commonality with the MV-22. Aircraft avionics peculiar to the Air Force unique mission requirements constitute aircraft differences. The Navy will use the HV-22 for Combat Search and Rescue and fleet logistics support.

Deployed to: Program is currently in Engineering and Manufacturing Development (EMD).

MV-22s will be deployed to all Marine Corps medium lift active duty and reserve tactical squadrons, the medium lift training squadron (FRS), and the executive support squadron (HMX).
Hmm...no wonder the President's thinking about cancelling the Osprey program. He's got to ride on it!
 

beau

Registered User
hehe thats a very good point. I guess he does not want to go whop whop whoping into the ground. John(sir), you should put an Ospery topic on this site named, "Problems with the h/mv-22 this week".
No offense to you Ospery jocks and dreamers.
I'm sure in about 5 or 10 years they will finally have a good aircraft.

Finch

GO SOONERS!!!
 

Dave Shutter

Registered User
Frumby...

I forgot that the Marine Helo's have to get squished onto the AMPHIB carriers and such, and yes, the Apache pilots I have met back in the Gang-Green have always said the '64 is a bit of a hangar pig. Anyway, here's the AH-1 upgrade I mentioned, followed by a little eye candy just for you Frumby.

Caption says it all, and you can tell by the blown up print that my scanner blows stuff up about 4x, explaining the poor pic quality. Haven't figured it out yet.



I just hope you have a sign on the back of your pilots chair on the SWA Shamu X-press that says: "My other ride is a T-45". I found it odd at first Major that you mentioned having more hours in the T-45 then your actual platform, but I'm quessing the operating budget of a VMAQ doesn't allow for as much flight time as required to IP a Jet stud' so he can eventually go in-and-out of the target area and then onto-and-off the boat again in one piece. Enjoy!

D

Edited by - Dave Shutter on 04/26/2001 00:52:49
 
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